installing IDE in new tower. part 1

Alsenor

I thought I had started a "help!" thread on this subject earlier today, but can't find it. Must have had a "senior moment" and not licked the submit button!
Here is my problem:
I see a tutorial on the HP site that explains how to add a PATA to my new machine (Adding or Replacing a Hard Drive HP Pavilion p6347c Desktop PC - HP technical support (Ireland - English)), but it remains a mystery to me how to match any of my connectors to the old drive. I see no parallel cable anywhere! And if I need to go and buy one, where the hell is the connection on the motherboard? The tutorial assumes I know all this, but if I did, I wouldn't need the tutorial.

Dixon Butz

Look for a blue connector next to the 24pin power connector. I can see it in the manual
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c01859455.pdf

Dixon Butz

Dixon Butz

Is that the right pic? Did you find it?

Alsenor

I don't have a blue connector there! Your image seems to be of a different motherboard. Mine has 4 RAM slots there, and the blue connector would not have room.

Night Hawk

If your optical drive is ide you will see a flat ribbon cable going to the board and simply find the middle connector in order to slave the drive. On some boards the single ide connector is located over near the PCI slots along the edge there. It will still be the same size and shape only diagonally across from the board.

Alsenor

�� Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk

If your optical drive is ide you will see a flat ribbon cable going to the board and simply find the middle connector in order to slave the drive. On some boards the single ide connector is located over near the PCI slots along the edge there. It will still be the same size and shape only diagonally across from the board.

My DVD drive is this: hp DVD A DH16AAL SCSI CdRom Deviceand has no ribbon cable, only wires.

merkat106

Some newer computers do not have PATA connections on their motherboards. This HP has a Foxconn mobo which does not.
Motherboard Specifications, H-RS880-uATX (Aloe) HP Pavilion p6347c Desktop PC - HP technical support (Ireland - English)

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf-JAVA.../c02431965.jpg

What I think your options are: getting an ide drive enclosure or the drive or getting an IDE to SATA Adapter which should be no more than $20.
http://www.amazon.com/Vantec-CB-IS10...0988246&sr=8-8

Night Hawk

If you have an ide cable onhand simply follow the edge of the board around to see if one is present. The plug on the cable itself is keyed with a locking tab and can only go in one way when plugging it into the connector on the board.

Most boards still see one ide channel for use with optical drives. The photos in any guide from HP and other companies simply show how to connect drives and devices without showing any specific make or model board that comes with any particular model. Since the boards are usually a specialty item ordered by them and not sold separately HP only knows offhand the full details.

merkat106

�� Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk

If you have an ide cable onhand simply follow the edge of the board around to see if one is present. The plug on the cable itself is keyed with a locking tab and can only go in one way when plugging it into the connector on the board.

Most boards still see one ide channel for use with optical drives. The photos in any guide from HP and other companies simply show how to connect drives and devices without showing any specific make or model board that comes with any particular model. Since the boards are usually a specialty item ordered by them and not sold separately HP only knows offhand the full details.

Hi,

There is no IDE ports on this board, only sata. My post contains pictures if you don't believe me...

Dixon Butz

Ok there is no PATA. Sorry that was the wrong image. Here is the correct image for that board. You can install another SATA HD.



Motherboard Specifications, H-RS880-uATX (Aloe) HP Pavilion p6347c Desktop PC - HP technical support (Ireland - English)

Alsenor

�� Quote: Originally Posted by merkat106

Some newer computers do not have PATA connections on their motherboards. This HP has a Foxconn mobo which does not.
Motherboard Specifications, H-RS880-uATX (Aloe) HP Pavilion p6347c Desktop PC - HP technical support (Ireland - English)

Thanks, Merkat. This is what I suspected. What upsets me is that the HP instructions are specific to my model computer (Adding or Replacing a Hard Drive HP Pavilion p6347c Desktop PC - HP technical support (Ireland - English)), but are wrong.

Quote:

What I think your options are: getting an ide drive enclosure or the drive or getting an IDE to SATA Adapter which should be no more than $20.
Amazon.com: Vantec CB-IS100 IDE to SATA Converter (Black): Electronics

I actually have both of these items. I have an exterior enclosure that I was using for backups, and I recently bought a PATA to SATA adapter. But when I tried to connect with the adapter I wasn't sure what goes where, then I looked at the HP instructions and thought "oh, they say I can connect without adapter!" NOT!
OK, so we are back to finding where to plug in the adapter cables. Two came with it - a wide red one (seems to be the data?) and one with a thin red and a thin black wire (power?). I think I found a power connection, because a light came on in the connector card, but I don't know where to connect the wider red band.

merkat106

With SATA, one cable goes into the mobo (smaller connector), the other connects to the psu (larger connector). I am not sure what connetors your hp psu has, so I don't know if you need ide/sata power connector adapter (not sure that what thats called).

DocBrown

Found this gadget on eBay


IDE to <> Dual Bidirectional SATA Converter Adapter HDD



IDE to SATA or SATA to IDE Adapter2-In-1 Bidirectional Bilateral. SATA-to-Ultra ATA-133 converter boards provide converter solutions for Parallel Ultra ATA Devices. 40 pin ATA port that can interface to parallel Ultra ATA (IDE) devices.


Description:

• Bi-Directional SATA to IDE Adapter for serial and parllel ATA. This adapter Does-it-All
• IDE to SATA Adapter or SATA to IDE Converter.
• This is a bi-directional converter for serial and parallel ATA translation.
• It includes the serial ATA PHY, Link, Transport, and Parallel ATA(Application Layer) controller.
• The serial ATA Physical, link and transport layers are complaint to Serial ATA 1.0.
• This IDE to SATA Converter supports a 1.5Ghz data rate.

Features:

• With LED indicated power
• Easy to install and no driver is required
• Serial ATA 1.0 Specification Compliant
• Automatic Serial ATA 1.5 Gbps Speed Negotiation
• ATA/ATAPI PIO mode 0 to 4
• ATA/ATAPI PI Ultra DMA of transfer rate 16.7, 25, 33, 48, 66, 100, 133, and 150 Mbps
• ATA/ATAPIPI LAB48 addressing mode associated with 2-byte sector count
• Support Serial ATA hot-plug
• Ultra Low power consumption
• Work for both AC and DC couple between the transmitter and receiver
• Provide specified OOB signal detection and transmission
• Support spread spectrum clocking to reduce EMI
• Support partial/slumber power management
• Provide adjustable TX signal amplitude and pre-emphasis level
• Slave support
• Weight: 78.2g

Package contents:

• 1 x IDE to SATA or SATA to IDE Bilateral Converter Adapter
• 1 x 4 pin power cable
• 1 x SATA cable

Alsenor

�� Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown

Found this gadget on eBay


IDE to <> Dual Bidirectional SATA Converter Adapter HDD

Attachment 89647

IDE to SATA or SATA to IDE Adapter2-In-1 Bidirectional Bilateral. SATA-to-Ultra ATA-133 converter boards provide converter solutions for Parallel Ultra ATA Devices. 40 pin ATA port that can interface to parallel Ultra ATA (IDE) devices.


Description:

• Bi-Directional SATA to IDE Adapter for serial and parllel ATA. This adapter Does-it-All
• IDE to SATA Adapter or SATA to IDE Converter.
• This is a bi-directional converter for serial and parallel ATA translation.
• It includes the serial ATA PHY, Link, Transport, and Parallel ATA(Application Layer) controller.
• The serial ATA Physical, link and transport layers are complaint to Serial ATA 1.0.
• This IDE to SATA Converter supports a 1.5Ghz data rate.

Features:

• With LED indicated power
• Easy to install and no driver is required
• Serial ATA 1.0 Specification Compliant
• Automatic Serial ATA 1.5 Gbps Speed Negotiation
• ATA/ATAPI PIO mode 0 to 4
• ATA/ATAPI PI Ultra DMA of transfer rate 16.7, 25, 33, 48, 66, 100, 133, and 150 Mbps
• ATA/ATAPIPI LAB48 addressing mode associated with 2-byte sector count
• Support Serial ATA hot-plug
• Ultra Low power consumption
• Work for both AC and DC couple between the transmitter and receiver
• Provide specified OOB signal detection and transmission
• Support spread spectrum clocking to reduce EMI
• Support partial/slumber power management
• Provide adjustable TX signal amplitude and pre-emphasis level
• Slave support
• Weight: 78.2g

Package contents:

• 1 x IDE to SATA or SATA to IDE Bilateral Converter Adapter
• 1 x 4 pin power cable
• 1 x SATA cable

That is the gadget I just bought. But where does the red cable plug in on the mobo?

stormy13

You plug the red SATA cable into one of the unused SATA ports (from that mobo picture; blue, light blue, white, red, orange, black).

DocBrown

One end of the red cable (Sata Data Cable) plugs into adapter & the other end into one of the empty sata ports on the motherboard.

Alsenor

OMG, that is where I put it (I picked the red one). Stroke of luck, and the only place it would fit.
When I tried to reboot and check whether the old IDE drive shows up in Windows Explorer, it wouldn't boot into my W7 drive, but was scanning drives....., then demanded that I load proper boot media and reboot!

DocBrown

Are the Sata ports on the MB marked as to SATA0, SATA1, SATA2, SATA3, etc ?

Your main sata HD should be in SATA port 0 (zero) to boot first !

Alsenor

�� Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown

Are the Sata ports on the MB marked as to SATA0, SATA1, SATA2, SATA3, etc ?

Your main sata HD should be in SATA port 0 (zero) to boot first !

It is hard to see in there, but I have not changed the factory connections. It looks like the dark blue is marked SATA 1 and goes to the main drive, the white one is marked SATA 2 and goes to the DVD, and light blue is marked SATA 3, which may be where I need to go with my line?

DocBrown

�� Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown

Found this gadget on eBay


IDE to <> Dual Bidirectional SATA Converter Adapter HDD

Attachment 89647

IDE to SATA or SATA to IDE Adapter2-In-1 Bidirectional Bilateral. SATA-to-Ultra ATA-133 converter boards provide converter solutions for Parallel Ultra ATA Devices. 40 pin ATA port that can interface to parallel Ultra ATA (IDE) devices.



Description:

• Bi-Directional SATA to IDE Adapter for serial and parllel ATA. This adapter Does-it-All
• IDE to SATA Adapter or SATA to IDE Converter.
• This is a bi-directional converter for serial and parallel ATA translation.
• It includes the serial ATA PHY, Link, Transport, and Parallel ATA(Application Layer) controller.
• The serial ATA Physical, link and transport layers are complaint to Serial ATA 1.0.
• This IDE to SATA Converter supports a 1.5Ghz data rate.

Features:

• With LED indicated power
• Easy to install and no driver is required
• Serial ATA 1.0 Specification Compliant
• Automatic Serial ATA 1.5 Gbps Speed Negotiation
• ATA/ATAPI PIO mode 0 to 4
• ATA/ATAPI PI Ultra DMA of transfer rate 16.7, 25, 33, 48, 66, 100, 133, and 150 Mbps
• ATA/ATAPIPI LAB48 addressing mode associated with 2-byte sector count
• Support Serial ATA hot-plug
• Ultra Low power consumption
• Work for both AC and DC couple between the transmitter and receiver
• Provide specified OOB signal detection and transmission
• Support spread spectrum clocking to reduce EMI
• Support partial/slumber power management
• Provide adjustable TX signal amplitude and pre-emphasis level
• Slave support
• Weight: 78.2g

Package contents:

• 1 x IDE to SATA or SATA to IDE Bilateral Converter Adapter
• 1 x 4 pin power cable
• 1 x SATA cable

�� Quote: Originally Posted by Alsenor

�� Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown

Are the Sata ports on the MB marked as to SATA0, SATA1, SATA2, SATA3, etc ?

Your main sata HD should be in SATA port 0 (zero) to boot first !

It is hard to see in there, but I have not changed the factory connections. It looks like the dark blue is marked SATA 1 and goes to the main drive, the white one is marked SATA 2 and goes to the DVD, and light blue is marked SATA 3, which may be where I need to go with my line?

Yes, try the one marked SATA 3 then for the connection of the adapter.

Alsenor

�� Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown

Yes, try the one marked SATA 3 then for the connection of the adapter.

I already did, with the same result as before.
I plugged the data cable into SATA 3 port. BUT - on reboot it starts out by "scanning drives......., and when that is done, it demands that I insert the W7 installation CD (which I do not have) or load proper boot media and reboot. That keeps going in a vicious circle, until I cut power. Then I have to disconnect the SATA 3 line to be able to boot into my main drive again.

DocBrown

You may have to go into the Bios setup before windows boots up & change to IDE HD's
as the selected HD

Alsenor

�� Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown

You may have to go into the Bios setup before windows boots up & change to IDE HD's
as the selected HD

First I want to boot into my W7 and check whether the OS recognizes the second drive.

Night Hawk

You have to go into the bios to set which drive will be the default boot device whenever first adding a new drive on. The exception to that of course would be usb external since plugging one of those in wouldn't offset the boot order.

I looked at some of the ide/sata converters and said no way. With the number of extra drives here I simply wnet for and ide/sata compatible external enclosure for backup on one or more left out of the case as well as popping old ide drives out of old builds for data rescue and wiping clean,

While many are seen for under $20 the better fan cooled enclosures will of course run higher to solve the cooling problem like one seen for $29.99 for both ide and sata that connects by eSata as well as usb. Newegg.com - SABRENT EC-UEIS7 Aluminum 3.5&#34; USB &#38; eSATA External Enclosure

Alsenor

�� Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk

You have to go into the bios to set which drive will be the default boot device whenever first adding a new drive on.

Should that not be the same as before if I don't change the boot order?

Quote:

I looked at some of the ide/sata converters and said no way. With the number of extra drives here I simply wnet for and ide/sata compatible external enclosure for backup on one or more left out of the case as well as popping old ide drives out of old builds for data rescue and wiping clean,

While many are seen for under $20 the better fan cooled enclosures will of course run higher to solve the cooling problem like one seen for $29.99 for both ide and sata that connects by eSata as well as usb. Newegg.com - SABRENT EC-UEIS7 Aluminum 3.5" USB & eSATA External Enclosure

I do have an external enclosure that I use for backups, but I am looking for a second drive to run XP on it.

Night Hawk

Since that model board lacks any ide connection which is what you were looking for there are sata/ide converters for internal as well as external use allowing you to run an ide drive through a sata port. But the best advice would simply move into a second sata drive for XP or split the present up to allow for the dual boot there.

The second method in the guide for setting up a dual boot of XP with 7 is what you would follow for that. Dual Boot Installation with Windows 7 and XP

As for the boot order getting familiar with things and sub menus most importantly for this found there is the largest help. In most bioses once you have the list of hard drives installed brought up you simply highlight the particular drive and move that to the top of the list using the plus or minus keys on the NumPad section of the keyboard. Usually there's a notation seen to the right on each bios screen with a little info for things there.

Alsenor

Well, we didn't figure out how to get the old IDE connected or recognized by my OS.
Since my new 500GB WD arrived today, I don't want to waste anyone's time any longer by trying to get the old IDE connected.
Now I have to connect the new SATA, which came without cables.
I have an extra data cable from the IDE/SATA converter board that I can use, and I just ordered a Molex to SATA power adapter cable.
There is another male 8-pin connector on the new drive - what is that for?

DocBrown

�� Quote: Originally Posted by Alsenor

Well, we didn't figure out how to get the old IDE connected or recognized by my OS.
Since my new 500GB WD arrived today, I don't want to waste anyone's time any longer by trying to get the old IDE connected.
Now I have to connect the new SATA, which came without cables.
I have an extra data cable from the IDE/SATA converter board that I can use, and I just ordered a Molex to SATA power adapter cable.
There is another male 8-pin connector on the new drive - what is that for?

Does it look like the 40 pins on the IDE HD. If so it is probably for jumper settings for some type of drive limitations. What exact model # is the New WD HD ?

Alsenor

This was the item I bought: WD 500GB WD5000AAKS SATA300 7200RPM 16MB OEM - eBay (item 310208387902 end time Aug-17-10 15:54:04 PDT)

Night Hawk

That's the optional 12v plugin in case your power supply lacks sata type power connectors. You'll see that standard on sata drives while the thinner wider plug is generally used when available. Plus with more then one sata installed you would use the same 12v rail rather then stretching a second one over for the molex type connector.

Alsenor

Ah, so I won't have to worry about that one. I already ordered 2pcs 6" Molex to SATA Power Adapter Cable New - eBay (item 400131149460 end time Aug-22-10 21:33:35 PDT) today, which should be all I still need. Hope it gets here soon.

Night Hawk

I have two of the same WD model 500gb drives as well as a 500gb Green Power model still in the old case here. If you present supply lacks the standard sata power connector that will work out. If the supply only has two already taken up then this is also a good move as well since sata is in and ide is eventually phasing out.

Alsenor

There are six extra 4-pin female Molex connectors spare in my tower, which is more than I should ever need. What do the standard sata power connectors look like?

Night Hawk

The photo posted earlier is for the 15pin sata power connector. That plugs in to the left of the thinner data cable when looking at the rear of the drive.

You'll notice them on the present drives that are already installed. That will likely have another connector available on the same rail depending on what they put in for a supply. Generally they allow for someone adding a second drive in on most desktop models.

Alsenor

�� Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk

The photo posted earlier is for the 15pin sata power connector. That plugs in to the left of the thinner data cable when looking at the rear of the drive.

You'll notice them on the present drives that are already installed. That will likely have another connector available on the same rail depending on what they put in for a supply. Generally they allow for someone adding a second drive in on most desktop models.

Yes, that is how I see it, and why I ordered these cables: 2pcs 6" Molex to SATA Power Adapter Cable New - eBay (item 400131149460 end time Aug-22-10 21:33:35 PDT)
Like I said, I have six Molex females on my wire bundle. For future connections I suppose, which I will never need.

Night Hawk

If you ever plan a server case and only have 6 connectors on a supply but intend 8 drives a few of those will never hurt to have onhand as well as adding in a sata drive with some old supply in an old case where the board has ports but the supply lacks the connectors.

All the new supplies however depending on size small maybe only seeing 4, mid range seeing 6, and extra larger seeing 8 connectors wouldn't be a problem for a new custom case while prebuilds and old pcs can be limited. I don't think you could beat the price seen either!

Alsenor

I am not likely to ever build a sever, and in my current PC there is only room for 2 drives anyway.

Night Hawk

Maybe not! That however was just an observation where this type of connector might have a need.

As far as only allowing two HDs! Well that's the trend you can expect to see since drive capcities have certainly increased over the last few years as well as people preferring more compact cases as well as energy saving being built into new systems which companies like!

I'll be dropping the new OS host/boot drive into another new build(microatx mid tower) that only allows two drives there. The one already in is a 1tb drive for storage. The supply however still provides 6 connectors being a 600w supply.

Originally if you had one of the older Sata I and some early Sata II drives you would see the 12v molex connector(pointed to in the attached image) where you now see a gap on that corner.

The other arrows going to the left in reverse order show DM(unused) for drive mode, D for 7pin data cable typically red when ordering a new main board separately, and pwr for power being the 15pin connector you saw posted earlier.

Alsenor

Yes, it's pretty clear now. The 8-pin drive mode connector had me wondering what it was for.

DocBrown

�� Quote: Originally Posted by Alsenor

Yes, it's pretty clear now. The 8-pin drive mode connector had me wondering what it was for.

Cleared it up for me, also as I had not seen a drive with the extra power connector

Night Hawk

About a year and a half back I had to replace an old ide drive that was stuffed on one case where the owner had actually ordered a Sata I not II drive!

That had the second molex connector as well as a jumper for changing the mode setting rather then the 8pin seen on all newer drives. Evem Sata III models see the 8 pins and gap on the rear corner still. Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!