Check the comments on this article, very interesting!!
Why XP owners won't love Windows 7 - Computerworld Blogs
Why XP owners won't love Windows 7 - Computerworld Blogs
well as a former XP addicted I have to disagree.
I waited till seven was release to replace my old computer turning on XP. I simply didn't want to go to Vista. Now I love Seven.
All what I used to do in XP, I can still do in Seven.
I do have some old stuff which requires the XP virtual mode, but that's fine and free.
Now with seven, I can do much more that with XP.
So I do not regret my switch.
I waited till seven was release to replace my old computer turning on XP. I simply didn't want to go to Vista. Now I love Seven.
All what I used to do in XP, I can still do in Seven.
I do have some old stuff which requires the XP virtual mode, but that's fine and free.
Now with seven, I can do much more that with XP.
So I do not regret my switch.
I read this thread before. I find it funny how a lot of these individuals complain that the interface gets in their way. I have two words for them "Classic View". If they must be so old fashioned, they can use that. For the rest of us who like to live in the 21st century, we'll take Aero.
I notice a lot of complaints mainly because Windows 7 is different and not exactly like XP. These are the people who will tell you "Well, Microsoft should develop something better, something that improves upon Windows XP." They will then follow it up by saying "it should look and feel and be like XP." Basically, the only thing that would suit them is if Microsoft kept releasing service packs for a now woefully outdated OS that's approaching the decade mark in age.
But back to the interface, again, I notice a lot of their completely unfounded complaints are based on the user interface, which makes them less productive. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't understand how the user interface in Windows 7 (which you can make look almost exactly like XP if you wish) is counter-productive. They must be drinking the hate-o-rade! A lot of people there say "We want productivity". I'm curious how they define that because again, 7 can look just like XP, 2000, even 98 if you wish. Personally, I was so happy when at my job they upgraded us from XP to 7. I started the initiative by insisting on an upgrade to Vista, which I was given. About three weeks later, we were all on 7 because XP was just far too outdated.
I remember one person who went absolutely insane when he was upgraded from 2000 to XP even with the classic interface, he complained that it was just too different. That's the kind of people these probably are, they saw changes and immediately rejected them and called it an overall bad OS because of these changes.
I notice a lot of complaints mainly because Windows 7 is different and not exactly like XP. These are the people who will tell you "Well, Microsoft should develop something better, something that improves upon Windows XP." They will then follow it up by saying "it should look and feel and be like XP." Basically, the only thing that would suit them is if Microsoft kept releasing service packs for a now woefully outdated OS that's approaching the decade mark in age.
But back to the interface, again, I notice a lot of their completely unfounded complaints are based on the user interface, which makes them less productive. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't understand how the user interface in Windows 7 (which you can make look almost exactly like XP if you wish) is counter-productive. They must be drinking the hate-o-rade! A lot of people there say "We want productivity". I'm curious how they define that because again, 7 can look just like XP, 2000, even 98 if you wish. Personally, I was so happy when at my job they upgraded us from XP to 7. I started the initiative by insisting on an upgrade to Vista, which I was given. About three weeks later, we were all on 7 because XP was just far too outdated.
I remember one person who went absolutely insane when he was upgraded from 2000 to XP even with the classic interface, he complained that it was just too different. That's the kind of people these probably are, they saw changes and immediately rejected them and called it an overall bad OS because of these changes.
everybody have the their think...and if ask me...am i love win 7??
of course yes...
of course yes...
Without reading the article....Most people that hate Windows 7 and hang on to XP is because they have crappy old outdated hardware and apps that haven't been upgraded in yes, so of course they will. Wouldn't you???
+1,
some of people didn't know what the error on it. cause the computer hang.. that's say because the OS didn't good or didn't run well.
but they don't what the error on it. so they just stress and hate. that's it
some of people didn't know what the error on it. cause the computer hang.. that's say because the OS didn't good or didn't run well.
but they don't what the error on it. so they just stress and hate. that's it
What's worse is that a lot of these people either used 7 for maybe all of about 5 minutes or never even used it at all and go on ranting and ranting based on others' opinions of Windows 7. But again, if they wish to continue using their outdated OS, that's their choice. It means more business for me because XP is going to become more and more vulnerable as time goes on at least until it flatlines to the point where no one cares.
Windows 7 has improved my efficiency with the computer. Interface has plenty of enhancements that make it smother and faster than XP.
Explorer Address Bar makes moving around folders and drives faster.
Libraries make finding files faster since they are all grouped together.
Those are two that I use a lot.
I personally can't stand to use XP anymore. XP reminds me of Windows 3.1 when I went to Win95.
Explorer Address Bar makes moving around folders and drives faster.
Libraries make finding files faster since they are all grouped together.
Those are two that I use a lot.
I personally can't stand to use XP anymore. XP reminds me of Windows 3.1 when I went to Win95.
Only problem with Win7 was with my Midi to USB adapter. There were no drivers and I had to buy a new one.
I still have 2 XP laptops and one with Win7. I must say that Win7 ROCKS.
I still have 2 XP laptops and one with Win7. I must say that Win7 ROCKS.
I like my frou-frou. Extra Functionality / aesthetically pleasing vs bland and limited. I know which features I'd prefer.
I don't consider myself a komputer expert. Sometimes I even have trouble spelling komputer. 
But when I decided to switch from XP to 7 I took a few weeks to research the differences between the operating systems and the new computer I was going to have to buy. I made a somewhat informed decision that the changes would eventually be worth it, even though I was going to have a pretty huge learning curve. What really convinced me that 7 is a great OS is the fact that my 6 year old Lexmark all in one printer even works flawlessly.
But when I decided to switch from XP to 7 I took a few weeks to research the differences between the operating systems and the new computer I was going to have to buy. I made a somewhat informed decision that the changes would eventually be worth it, even though I was going to have a pretty huge learning curve. What really convinced me that 7 is a great OS is the fact that my 6 year old Lexmark all in one printer even works flawlessly. Those guys may as well stay on XP - nothing wrong with that. My 2 cars are more than 10 years old too and run and run. It is all a matter of priorities.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by whs 
Those guys may as well stay on XP - nothing wrong with that. My 2 cars are more than 10 years old too and run and run. It is all a matter of priorities.
But really, I was one of those crazies who loved Vista, resource-hog tho' it was. The updates to the NT filesystem, the extra security...and Seven just improved on the experience. Old, outdated XP with its horrible security and terrible UI just...doesn't work for me.
I too was one of those crazies who loved Vista as well and never really had any issue with it. It was rather funny too as most of my friends had XP at the time and were reinstalling about every 3 to 4 months due to BSODs and what not and they would tell me how horrible Vista was and how they refused to install it. My install lasted about 20 months until I decided to upgrade to 64-bit.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by MattRainier Old, outdated XP with its horrible security and terrible UI just...doesn't work for me.
)I guess this same set of rules apply to any other OS, no matter how "safe" they tell you they might be.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by eldinv Without reading the article....Most people that hate Windows 7 and hang on to XP is because they have crappy old outdated hardware and apps that haven't been upgraded in yes, so of course they will. Wouldn't you???
Bottom line? Most people are AFRAID of change, be it computers or life in general. They know how something works and don't want to move outside their comfort zone. The members of SF understand the value of Windows 7, and why it's superior to XP.
XP is fading, in part b/c of OS upgrades, but mostly b/c of new computers coming preinstalled with the latest OS.
XP is fading, in part b/c of OS upgrades, but mostly b/c of new computers coming preinstalled with the latest OS.
My $0.02 on the matter
#1). Windows XP was very easy to steal...especially with a volume license key so it didn't have to be activated. People could install it, share it and put it on whatever they want. It was way easier with XP than it is with Vista or 7. So, since it's not as easy to steal, just badmouth it and use the old stuff.
#2). People don't want to buy a new computer, or don't see any reason to pay money for a new OS. If they use their computer mostly to read the web, and their email...it doesn't really matter to them if it's running XP, Vista...etc. As long as their web browser works and their email comes in they are all set.
#1). Windows XP was very easy to steal...especially with a volume license key so it didn't have to be activated. People could install it, share it and put it on whatever they want. It was way easier with XP than it is with Vista or 7. So, since it's not as easy to steal, just badmouth it and use the old stuff.
#2). People don't want to buy a new computer, or don't see any reason to pay money for a new OS. If they use their computer mostly to read the web, and their email...it doesn't really matter to them if it's running XP, Vista...etc. As long as their web browser works and their email comes in they are all set.
I wonder, in say 6 years, how many people will still be on XP? I wonder if these people that swear they'll only leave XP when MS makes Windows XP 2 (in their dreams) will actually follow through? Or if they'll end up either switching to Windows 7/8/higher, or Mac, or Linux, or Chrome OS ... still muttering all the time that XP was best...
And Lemur is right, most people are afraid of change. I've heard a few Mac users say that they hate Windows "because it's not Mac". People hate Vista and 7, and will go on to hate Windows 8 and probably every other version of Windows, just "because it's not XP".
Speaking of all this, does anyone remember when XP first came out, and had compatibility problems left and right, and was considered by many to be a horrible excuse for an OS? Windows 98 was the "golden standard." Ironic...
And Lemur is right, most people are afraid of change. I've heard a few Mac users say that they hate Windows "because it's not Mac". People hate Vista and 7, and will go on to hate Windows 8 and probably every other version of Windows, just "because it's not XP".
Speaking of all this, does anyone remember when XP first came out, and had compatibility problems left and right, and was considered by many to be a horrible excuse for an OS? Windows 98 was the "golden standard." Ironic...
They hate it because they have old system specs..
�� Quote: Originally Posted by BCXtreme Speaking of all this, does anyone remember when XP first came out, and had compatibility problems left and right, and was considered by many to be a horrible excuse for an OS? Windows 98 was the "golden standard." Ironic...
List of fixes for 1
List of fixes in Windows XP Service Pack 1 and Windows XP Service Pack 1a
List of fixes for 2
List of fixes included in Windows XP Service Pack 2
List of fixes for 3
List of fixes that are included in Windows XP Service Pack 3
Wanna count 'em? I don't.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Lemur �� Quote: Originally Posted by BCXtreme Speaking of all this, does anyone remember when XP first came out, and had compatibility problems left and right, and was considered by many to be a horrible excuse for an OS? Windows 98 was the "golden standard." Ironic...
List of fixes for 1
List of fixes in Windows XP Service Pack 1 and Windows XP Service Pack 1a
List of fixes for 2
List of fixes included in Windows XP Service Pack 2
List of fixes for 3
List of fixes that are included in Windows XP Service Pack 3
Wanna count 'em? I don't.
Windows 7 SP1 is little more than a compilation of previous updates, it doesn't "fix" any major issues. So which OS is truly better?
�� Quote: Originally Posted by antares Check the comments on this article, very interesting!!
Why XP owners won't love Windows 7 - Computerworld Blogs
Why XP owners won't love Windows 7 - Computerworld Blogs
I would not have switched to 7 from XP just to switch. All the years of tweaks, and programs, and all I didn't want to lose. But, I wanted a screaming new PC, and I wasn't going to be stupid and install an older OS on it. Since it had gotten almost universal good reviews, I knew 7 was good. Happy as can be, no looking back. Besides, got to come to Seven Forums, case closed, lol.
A Guy
A Guy
I don't think the conclusion can be drawn that that "most XP users hate Windows 7". There may be plenty of people that don't want to switch for whatever reason but I doubt "most" users hate Win 7.
Personally, I've purchased only 1 computer that came with Win 7 installed but have converted 6 other computers in my house from XP to Win 7 and have no desire to switch back!
Personally, I've purchased only 1 computer that came with Win 7 installed but have converted 6 other computers in my house from XP to Win 7 and have no desire to switch back!
I used to have XP years ago before Vista, and, after using W98SE, I thought it was great. Then along came Vista and now Windows 7. Each new release I felt was an improvement over the last. Where I feel that many people have problems is not the OS persay, but rather its idiosyncrasies and different ways to achieve the same thing. In other words, people get frustrated when the method that they have got used to using in achieving something in an older OS no longer works, or only partially works, in a newer OS. The solution there is patience and learning the new way of doing things. Then there is the totally new features that didn't previously exist. The UAC is a classic example. This did not exist in XP, was introduced in Vista and greatly improved in Windows 7. Of course, it is not perfect, but I haven't had trouble with it at its default settings.
To be fair, the article referred to was written in January 2009, a good 9 months before your "average" XP owner would have been able to legally get their hands on it. So how did the writer know people wouldn't like it if they haven't seen it (beta testers excepted)?? �� Quote: Originally Posted by A Guy Same boat here, made my own theme etc. and knew exactly where everything was.
The "very occasional" system re-install would be due to user error, usually trying to remove Outlook (with a 20Gb system HDD, removing everything that I thought was "bloatware" was essential!). But to re-install the system and all my stuff took at most an hour.
WinPatrol, ESET, Mbam instantly took hold of any naughty boys, gave them a good slapping and showed 'em the door.
Then my old (and it was second hand to me) Packard Bell was finally showing its age so it was time to buy a new PC, but that was back in June 2009 and like A Guy I wasn't going to install an old system on a new PC. I waited until December 2009 to see what feedback Windows 7 was getting from "real people", not Beta testers.
And I was impressed, so I took the leap.
Am I still impressed? Yep. 98% of the time.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by A Guy I would not have switched to 7 from XP just to switch. All the years of tweaks, and programs, and all I didn't want to lose. But, I wanted a screaming new PC, and I wasn't going to be stupid and install an older OS on it....
The "very occasional" system re-install would be due to user error, usually trying to remove Outlook (with a 20Gb system HDD, removing everything that I thought was "bloatware" was essential!). But to re-install the system and all my stuff took at most an hour.
WinPatrol, ESET, Mbam instantly took hold of any naughty boys, gave them a good slapping and showed 'em the door.
Then my old (and it was second hand to me) Packard Bell was finally showing its age so it was time to buy a new PC, but that was back in June 2009 and like A Guy I wasn't going to install an old system on a new PC. I waited until December 2009 to see what feedback Windows 7 was getting from "real people", not Beta testers.
And I was impressed, so I took the leap.
Am I still impressed? Yep. 98% of the time.
Windows 7 is better than xp in so many ways,but i dont know why they hate it so much...
Time to quote him and tell him why he is wrong.... (IMO of course )
I can understand wanting to keep your tried, trusted, and true hardware, but there comes a point where it is obsolete. In the technology world, much more than 5 years and it is old.
Windows Classic (or basic) theme for the win...
Run box is still there, just a little deeper in the menu.
I don't know why desktop icons are an issue, they work exactly the same :sarcastic:
Anyways, in the end it is a new OS, why SHOULDN'T it be different? Would you drive a car that was made in 1950 because you think it works better than one made in 2009? The safety features alone should make you think twice...
~Lordbob
)Quote:
One of the biggest complaints that XP users had with Windows Vista was its hardware incompatibilities. Older printers, scanners, network cards, and other peripherals simply didn't work with Vista. Here's the bad news: They won't work in Windows 7, either, because Windows 7 uses the same driver model as Windows Vista. So XP users will be out of luck.
Quote:
XP users also tend not to be fans of Vista's Windows Aero and other interface enhancements that they dismiss as so much frou-frou. Guess what --- there's even more frou-frou in Windows 7, such as a new taskbar and a nice new feature called Aero Peek. (For more details, see "Review: Windows 7 Beta 1 shows off new task bar, more UI goodies.") Those features won't make XP users happy.
Quote:
Some XP users I know simply don't like change. They'd like the old Windows Explorer back, or the Run box back, or would have liked to have seen the same desktop icons in Vista that were in XP. Even though Vista lets them customize it so that it had some old XP features, it was still different enough that they weren't happy.
I don't know why desktop icons are an issue, they work exactly the same :sarcastic:
Anyways, in the end it is a new OS, why SHOULDN'T it be different? Would you drive a car that was made in 1950 because you think it works better than one made in 2009? The safety features alone should make you think twice...
~Lordbob
I like LordBob's car analogy, except, a car from the 50's (like my Dads '55 Chevy) still looks cool and is nice to drive once in a while. After figuring out 7, doing anything in XP just seems harder. The Run box was easier to find in XP, but I've almost completely replaced it with Windows search. Besides, saying that people that primarily use one OS, don't like the other, is like saying most people that have only used desktop computers, don't like using laptops. Yeah its true, but that doesn't mean that laptops don't have some advantages over desktops.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Petey7 I like LordBob's car analogy, except, a car from the 50's (like my Dads '55 Chevy) still looks cool and is nice to drive once in a while. After figuring out 7, doing anything in XP just seems harder. The Run box was easier to find in XP, but I've almost completely replaced it with Windows search. Besides, saying that people that primarily use one OS, don't like the other, is like saying most people that have only used desktop computers, don't like using laptops. Yeah its true, but that doesn't mean that laptops don't have some advantages over desktops.
~Lordbob
I liked XP when it was the newest & greatest os. Then when Vista came out, I liked it (except for the bugs), but I still used XP. Then when 7 was released as RTM, I liked it and finally retired XP. I found that both Vista & 7 are more stable than XP in a PC repair bench. Our XP box would seem to crash whenever I tried to fix a corrupted hard drive, whereas, the Vista (7 wasn't even beta at the time) box would not.
This is quite the surprise to me. I remember setting up Vista on a friends laptop because it was what he wanted and after seeing it I did not really care for it for quite a few reasons but saw it had some good stuff as well.
I was one of the BETA testers for Windows 7 and liked what I saw there a great deal as they took the better portions of Vista and not only expanded upon them they were far superior.
I loaded W7 Professional 32 on a nearly 6 y/o DELL XPS laptop with 60Gb HDD, a CD-RW, 2 Gb RAM and a 128 Mb ATi 9700 GPU, the CPU is a 3.4GHz extreme. This system ran like a top for all the time I owned it with a hiccup of the keyboard going fluky after 5 years so I just replaced it and we were off and running.
Once W7 Pro 32 was loaded it was not only running flawlessly, it surpassed the way it ran with XP Pro and I ordered a new 160Gb HDD for it and when I loaded W7 Pro 32 on it that was the OS, no XP and I find XP a bit clunky now when I had never had that issue before W7, I guess we're all different.
I was one of the BETA testers for Windows 7 and liked what I saw there a great deal as they took the better portions of Vista and not only expanded upon them they were far superior.
I loaded W7 Professional 32 on a nearly 6 y/o DELL XPS laptop with 60Gb HDD, a CD-RW, 2 Gb RAM and a 128 Mb ATi 9700 GPU, the CPU is a 3.4GHz extreme. This system ran like a top for all the time I owned it with a hiccup of the keyboard going fluky after 5 years so I just replaced it and we were off and running.
Once W7 Pro 32 was loaded it was not only running flawlessly, it surpassed the way it ran with XP Pro and I ordered a new 160Gb HDD for it and when I loaded W7 Pro 32 on it that was the OS, no XP and I find XP a bit clunky now when I had never had that issue before W7, I guess we're all different.
I will install 7 and use it in a dual boot config with XP. I do everything in XP (except on my 7 netbook), but will slowly shift to 7 as I get used to it.
Dell says bye to XP:
Dell prepares for Windows XP's final act | Beyond Binary - CNET News
Dell prepares for Windows XP's final act | Beyond Binary - CNET News
Your source for the statement most XP users hate win 7?
When I first got my Vista computer it was right when SP1 was released and all the complaints that my friends who ran XP at the time about the Vista OS just didn't materialize on my machine because so many improvements had been made by that time.
Flash forward 2 years and all of us are now running Win 7! This latest and greatest Windows OS has brought us all together on the same computing platform for the very first time and I haven't heard one of them complain yet with the exception that they are convinced that Win 7 Aero has a back door!
~Maxx~
.
Flash forward 2 years and all of us are now running Win 7! This latest and greatest Windows OS has brought us all together on the same computing platform for the very first time and I haven't heard one of them complain yet with the exception that they are convinced that Win 7 Aero has a back door!
~Maxx~
.
Hi there
to me the original statement - especially without decent facts to back this up is just a load of "Little round Objects" or more bluntly Pure Bovine Scatology.
True some people hate change and there are little niggles such as (but please don't start a thread on this again) the old Classic menu vs the newer interface but once people have got used to W7 and embraced a lot of the new features then I can't see the statement ringing true at all.
Lack of a decent email client (Outlook express was 100% fine for users who just wanted a simple no nonsense email package without all the bells and whistles such as Outlook has) and no decent equivalent to Netmeeting are probably the biggest gripes I've heard when people upgrade.
Neither of these problems are insurmountable in themselves but removing functionality that people are VERY comfortable with is likely to cause the biggest grumbles from NON technical users when an upgrade is required.
Most people (including me) who one way or another are still running some XP systems whether on real or Virtual machines do so because of particular issues such as legacy hardware / corporate software etc.
I and I'm sure most other users wouldn't find it a problem when the day finally arrives to ditch XP completely.
Cheers
jimbo
to me the original statement - especially without decent facts to back this up is just a load of "Little round Objects" or more bluntly Pure Bovine Scatology.
True some people hate change and there are little niggles such as (but please don't start a thread on this again) the old Classic menu vs the newer interface but once people have got used to W7 and embraced a lot of the new features then I can't see the statement ringing true at all.
Lack of a decent email client (Outlook express was 100% fine for users who just wanted a simple no nonsense email package without all the bells and whistles such as Outlook has) and no decent equivalent to Netmeeting are probably the biggest gripes I've heard when people upgrade.
Neither of these problems are insurmountable in themselves but removing functionality that people are VERY comfortable with is likely to cause the biggest grumbles from NON technical users when an upgrade is required.
Most people (including me) who one way or another are still running some XP systems whether on real or Virtual machines do so because of particular issues such as legacy hardware / corporate software etc.
I and I'm sure most other users wouldn't find it a problem when the day finally arrives to ditch XP completely.
Cheers
jimbo
�� Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 Hi there
to me the original statement - especially without decent facts to back this up is just a load of "Little round Objects" or more bluntly Pure Bovine Scatology.
True some people hate change and there are little niggles such as (but please don't start a thread on this again) the old Classic menu vs the newer interface but once people have got used to W7 and embraced a lot of the new features then I can't see the statement ringing true at all.
Lack of a decent email client (Outlook express was 100% fine for users who just wanted a simple no nonsense email package without all the bells and whistles such as Outlook has) and no decent equivalent to Netmeeting are probably the biggest gripes I've heard when people upgrade.
Neither of these problems are insurmountable in themselves but removing functionality that people are VERY comfortable with is likely to cause the biggest grumbles from NON technical users when an upgrade is required.
Most people (including me) who one way or another are still running some XP systems whether on real or Virtual machines do so because of particular issues such as legacy hardware / corporate software etc.
I and I'm sure most other users wouldn't find it a problem when the day finally arrives to ditch XP completely.
Cheers
jimbo
to me the original statement - especially without decent facts to back this up is just a load of "Little round Objects" or more bluntly Pure Bovine Scatology.
True some people hate change and there are little niggles such as (but please don't start a thread on this again) the old Classic menu vs the newer interface but once people have got used to W7 and embraced a lot of the new features then I can't see the statement ringing true at all.
Lack of a decent email client (Outlook express was 100% fine for users who just wanted a simple no nonsense email package without all the bells and whistles such as Outlook has) and no decent equivalent to Netmeeting are probably the biggest gripes I've heard when people upgrade.
Neither of these problems are insurmountable in themselves but removing functionality that people are VERY comfortable with is likely to cause the biggest grumbles from NON technical users when an upgrade is required.
Most people (including me) who one way or another are still running some XP systems whether on real or Virtual machines do so because of particular issues such as legacy hardware / corporate software etc.
I and I'm sure most other users wouldn't find it a problem when the day finally arrives to ditch XP completely.
Cheers
jimbo
I don't want to turn this into a debate on such things, but I do think that they were forced to make several basic features (like email) a little harder for the novice user, to avoid being sued by companies that thought it was unfair to include any competitive software in Windows. (I guess those companies aren't concerned about Windows DVD Maker, Desktop Gadgets, or Paint, for some reason.)
I remember reading that article when it was about XP itself.
It was about how Win2k users would hate/hated XP because of all the frou frou. I actually know some people that to this day still use classic mode on XP!
At some point people just get "stuck" in time and that's it for them and technology. It'll likely happen to every one of us at some point as well. But things gotta move forward. I sure wouldn't want to be still using Dos 3.0 and playing games on my 4 color 320x240 CGA card :P
It was about how Win2k users would hate/hated XP because of all the frou frou. I actually know some people that to this day still use classic mode on XP!
At some point people just get "stuck" in time and that's it for them and technology. It'll likely happen to every one of us at some point as well. But things gotta move forward. I sure wouldn't want to be still using Dos 3.0 and playing games on my 4 color 320x240 CGA card :P
All I have to say is I dled Windows Seven on a whim
1. Because I wanted to see how it was different from Vista which I completely skipped over
2. Because it was free and I also wanted to use up more of my 8 gigs of ram.
And now couldn't have been happier. I still have a XP hard drive I occasionally go to to use certain apps and to keep updates up to date and all i can say is it looks so antiquated it's not even funny.
So I say let those nonconformists hang on to XP, they have no idea what they are missing.
Oh by the way 2 really nice cars Greg!
Fabe
1. Because I wanted to see how it was different from Vista which I completely skipped over
2. Because it was free and I also wanted to use up more of my 8 gigs of ram.
And now couldn't have been happier. I still have a XP hard drive I occasionally go to to use certain apps and to keep updates up to date and all i can say is it looks so antiquated it's not even funny.
So I say let those nonconformists hang on to XP, they have no idea what they are missing.
Oh by the way 2 really nice cars Greg!
Fabe
�� Quote: Originally Posted by fseal I remember reading that article when it was about XP itself.
It was about how Win2k users would hate/hated XP because of all the frou frou. I actually know some people that to this day still use classic mode on XP!
At some point people just get "stuck" in time and that's it for them and technology. It'll likely happen to every one of us at some point as well. But things gotta move forward. I sure wouldn't want to be still using Dos 3.0 and playing games on my 4 color 320x240 CGA card :P
It was about how Win2k users would hate/hated XP because of all the frou frou. I actually know some people that to this day still use classic mode on XP!
At some point people just get "stuck" in time and that's it for them and technology. It'll likely happen to every one of us at some point as well. But things gotta move forward. I sure wouldn't want to be still using Dos 3.0 and playing games on my 4 color 320x240 CGA card :P
It is pretty incredible that the same people who flamed XP for years are now clinging to it with a death-grip. Same as the (rare) people who use iOS 2.x, the PlayStation 1, VHS, and dial-up Internet. I even heard a story about someone that hated CDs. To him, it wasn't music without the popping/crackling/static of a record. That's perhaps the best explanation of the mentality.
Anyway, it should be noted that most of us probably know someone (I know at least one) that was a die-hard XP user, right up until the day Windows 7 came out. Then they got a new computer for one reason or another, and fell in love.
I was stuck to XP-PRO big time. Then one day after a little research, what the heck give it a try. With a little time learning all the goodies about Window 7 it was obvious to me that W7 is the best operating system out there so far. Some people don't want to give themselves and W7 at little time to know each other.
Their problem, the simply don't accept change, even if it's for the better.
To them; "Ignorance is bliss".
To them; "Ignorance is bliss".
in all fairness to change, some people are not passionate and interested in the workings of their computer, they simply want it to work. So, when they switch to something new and cannot find it, or struggle to make it work like they are used to...it's just that...a struggle. Some people simply have no interest or desire to evaluate whether a new method of doing something is better...they just want to stick to what they know. Eventually though, the technology does change and they are either left behind or they adapt. They can keep using their XP machines as long as they can, and when they die, they are likely going to be forced into this new OS. And I'm sure given time, they will figure out what they "need" to figure out. The rest will just be lost on them.
Slow adapters.
We're here for them.
We're here for them.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 in all fairness to change, some people are not passionate and interested in the workings of their computer, they simply want it to work. So, when they switch to something new and cannot find it, or struggle to make it work like they are used to...it's just that...a struggle. Some people simply have no interest or desire to evaluate whether a new method of doing something is better...they just want to stick to what they know. Eventually though, the technology does change and they are either left behind or they adapt. They can keep using their XP machines as long as they can, and when they die, they are likely going to be forced into this new OS. And I'm sure given time, they will figure out what they "need" to figure out. The rest will just be lost on them.
if they only surf the web, read email and once in a great while print something....are they really missing out on much????
Oh yeah, they don't understand what makes it "tick" or even have a thought about what their system is.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 I and I'm sure most other users wouldn't find it a problem when the day finally arrives to ditch XP completely.
Cheers
jimbo
Cheers
jimbo
Nevertheless there are some hard core XP users out there who will go to their grave expounding the glories of that turn of the century OS. One of them blew up on me the other day saying "please search the net ; read what people say ... ran your benchmarks (please... I know all those biased tests that anybody can see out there) I did my tests - the system (Win 7) is pathetic!"
It is truly sad that it takes this extreme level of delusion and paranoia to believe that all benchmarks except the ones he has made up on his to favor XP are purposely rigged in favor of Win 7. I think that its an exaggeration to say that most XP users hate Win 7, but there are a few completely ballistic just at the mention of it.
~Maxx~
.
Depending upon what you want to get out of your PC and your hardware, sometimes XP is a benefit. There are always complaints when things change...and finding them on the net is easy. Usually the net is full of those who are complaining, while those who are happily working along are typically more quiet.
Just look at the # of people who think that UAC is awful and should be banished. Apparently they forget that everybody having admin access is what really make XP so troublesome in the past.
Just look at the # of people who think that UAC is awful and should be banished. Apparently they forget that everybody having admin access is what really make XP so troublesome in the past.
Some need a hardware upgrade, people cannot expect to run today's OS's with 8 year old hardware.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Skulblaka Some need a hardware upgrade, people cannot expect to run today's OS's with 8 year old hardware.
I went right from XP to Win7 but work with all operating systems with my job. Win7 has been solid for me and look forward to more and better things to come down the road weather it 's Win8 or improvements to Win7. GL
�� Quote: Originally Posted by polarbear I went right from XP to Win7 but work with all operating systems with my job.
~Maxx~
.
I think computing for a lot of people has become an appliance, or close to it, akin to their refrigerator, dishwasher, or even their TVs. You turn them on, use them for a bit, and then shut down/sleep and forget it. They don't want to think about things like maintenance, what's new "under the hood", etc - they want to do what they always do (whether that be run the same apps, check mail, browse the web, etc), and move on with their lives.
I too have become one of those people over time, although I still find new tech interesting. However, Win7 was sort of a change in this regard - it gets up quickly, gets out of your way, and does things in a more "human" manner than previous versions of Windows used to (in fact, with the superbar, it's even more designed for folks to use by muscle memory than XP ever was). I treat my PC now the way I have always treated others PCs that come to me for help - you set it up initially, properly; install a good anti-malware bundle that will stay updated automatically (MSE is perfect for this), and enable automatic disk defrag (which is helpfully done for you out of the box). The PC then becomes, basically, an appliance that self-maintains and is easy to use.
I have to agree with the statements that most folks who don't upgrade right now are probably just happy with the status quo and will worry about a new OS when they get new hardware, but we'll see the same sort of zealotry in a few years that you generally see from folks in the Win9x scene today, or the folks that are sticking with Win2K are starting to become - they'll cling to an old OS like XP with everything they've got, and everything else ever made will be "crap". Technology will pass them by, but for the vast majority of the long-term holdouts, it probably won't affect them much at all until they can't find an XP installation disc or ISO anymore.
Suum cuique.
I too have become one of those people over time, although I still find new tech interesting. However, Win7 was sort of a change in this regard - it gets up quickly, gets out of your way, and does things in a more "human" manner than previous versions of Windows used to (in fact, with the superbar, it's even more designed for folks to use by muscle memory than XP ever was). I treat my PC now the way I have always treated others PCs that come to me for help - you set it up initially, properly; install a good anti-malware bundle that will stay updated automatically (MSE is perfect for this), and enable automatic disk defrag (which is helpfully done for you out of the box). The PC then becomes, basically, an appliance that self-maintains and is easy to use.
I have to agree with the statements that most folks who don't upgrade right now are probably just happy with the status quo and will worry about a new OS when they get new hardware, but we'll see the same sort of zealotry in a few years that you generally see from folks in the Win9x scene today, or the folks that are sticking with Win2K are starting to become - they'll cling to an old OS like XP with everything they've got, and everything else ever made will be "crap". Technology will pass them by, but for the vast majority of the long-term holdouts, it probably won't affect them much at all until they can't find an XP installation disc or ISO anymore
.Suum cuique.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Skulblaka Some need a hardware upgrade, people cannot expect to run today's OS's with 8 year old hardware.
Running Windows 2000 on that computer is actually faster -- that's basically due to the MUCH smaller size of the OS and W2K was designed as a SERVER OS (its the basis for the STILL excellent Windows 2003 Server) but you would be surprised at what W7 will work on.
I have some legacy PERIPHERALS where the original manufacturer is no longer in business --quite specialized and EXPENSIVE gear still perfectly serviceable so I'm keeping XP for these (running XP as a Virtual Machine --no more dual booting for me).
For this type of gear XP will still be around for several years yet -- not because it's a better or worse OS - but due to the fact that people who USE this type of gear will still need it.
As to lack of security updates -- well if you use your XP system as a Virtual machine there isn't any need to connect it to the "external" Internet anyway. You can still share files / printers etc over your own LAN of course.
Cheers
jimbo
�� Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 �� Quote: Originally Posted by Skulblaka Some need a hardware upgrade, people cannot expect to run today's OS's with 8 year old hardware.
Running Windows 2000 on that computer is actually faster -- that's basically due to the MUCH smaller size of the OS and W2K was designed as a SERVER OS (its the basis for the STILL excellent Windows 2003 Server) but you would be surprised at what W7 will work on.
I have some legacy PERIPHERALS where the original manufacturer is no longer in business --quite specialized and EXPENSIVE gear still perfectly serviceable so I'm keeping XP for these (running XP as a Virtual Machine --no more dual booting for me).
For this type of gear XP will still be around for several years yet -- not because it's a better or worse OS - but due to the fact that people who USE this type of gear will still need it.
As to lack of security updates -- well if you use your XP system as a Virtual machine there isn't any need to connect it to the "external" Internet anyway. You can still share files / printers etc over your own LAN of course.
Cheers
jimbo
There is always a exception where a older operating system is better and or needed for connecting to a piece of expensive equipment or such. Most of these don't go to the internet. Those people or companies will keep the old operating system because it works with there very expensive equipment they don't want or need to upgrade or replace. For most of the complaints about Windows 7 I have read here are not those kind of people. They understand. Most complaints I read here and other sites are from people wanting to use there computer at home or school. IMHO they don't want to learn a new system or upgrade there software or hardware to meet W7 standards. There answer to the problem is coming to a Windows 7 forum and tell all the members how bad W7 is. I would like to say that the ones that hang around and let us help them end up happy with W7. I did it the easy way. I came here first and did a lot of research. I wanted to know as much as I could before jumping to Windows 7 Home premium 64 from XP-PRO 32. I found out that my equipment would work so I added more ram. I also learned that some of my programs will not work to there best with a new 64 bit system. I just bought new programs that I couldn't up grade to 64 bit free. And of course a clean install, no upgrades. Installing ever thing went smooth so I joined this forum. Thank you all for the information I got here. I learn something new every time I come here.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 SOME 8 year old hardware will run W7 quite happily -- I've got an old PENTIUM IV computer from circa 2000 running W7 32 bit just fine -- although it's only got 512GB RAM and a 60 GB HDD. Not even USB slots.
Running Windows 2000 on that computer is actually faster -- that's basically due to the MUCH smaller size of the OS and W2K was designed as a SERVER OS (its the basis for the STILL excellent Windows 2003 Server) but you would be surprised at what W7 will work on.
Running Windows 2000 on that computer is actually faster -- that's basically due to the MUCH smaller size of the OS and W2K was designed as a SERVER OS (its the basis for the STILL excellent Windows 2003 Server) but you would be surprised at what W7 will work on.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 I have some legacy PERIPHERALS where the original manufacturer is no longer in business --quite specialized and EXPENSIVE gear still perfectly serviceable so I'm keeping XP for these (running XP as a Virtual Machine --no more dual booting for me).
For this type of gear XP will still be around for several years yet -- not because it's a better or worse OS - but due to the fact that people who USE this type of gear will still need it.
Cheers
jimbo
For this type of gear XP will still be around for several years yet -- not because it's a better or worse OS - but due to the fact that people who USE this type of gear will still need it.
Cheers
jimbo
�� Quote: Originally Posted by antares �� Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 SOME 8 year old hardware will run W7 quite happily -- I've got an old PENTIUM IV computer from circa 2000 running W7 32 bit just fine -- although it's only got 512GB RAM and a 60 GB HDD. Not even USB slots.
Running Windows 2000 on that computer is actually faster -- that's basically due to the MUCH smaller size of the OS and W2K was designed as a SERVER OS (its the basis for the STILL excellent Windows 2003 Server) but you would be surprised at what W7 will work on.
Running Windows 2000 on that computer is actually faster -- that's basically due to the MUCH smaller size of the OS and W2K was designed as a SERVER OS (its the basis for the STILL excellent Windows 2003 Server) but you would be surprised at what W7 will work on.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 I have some legacy PERIPHERALS where the original manufacturer is no longer in business --quite specialized and EXPENSIVE gear still perfectly serviceable so I'm keeping XP for these (running XP as a Virtual Machine --no more dual booting for me).
For this type of gear XP will still be around for several years yet -- not because it's a better or worse OS - but due to the fact that people who USE this type of gear will still need it.
Cheers
jimbo
For this type of gear XP will still be around for several years yet -- not because it's a better or worse OS - but due to the fact that people who USE this type of gear will still need it.
Cheers
jimbo
A Virtual machine is almost like running a physical XP machine except that it runs as an application on your Host machine say W7.
Forget XP mode for the moment -- that's a specialized case -- however if you run say Virtual Box or VMWARE on your W7 installation you can create a "Virtual Machine".
In this case 99.99% of Legacy hardware WILL run. XP mode IMO is a waste of time but running a Full Virtual machine under vmware or Vbox will give you what you want.
When creating this you perform an installation of the OS just like you would as if you were installing it on your physical computer.
The advantage is you DON'T need to dual boot and the old drivers will keep legacy hardware running indefintely.
Look at the virtualisation tutorials on the forum fore more info on this topic.
Cheers
jimbo
�� Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 Hi there
A Virtual machine is almost like running a physical XP machine except that it runs as an application on your Host machine say W7.
Forget XP mode for the moment -- that's a specialized case -- however if you run say Virtual Box or VMWARE on your W7 installation you can create a "Virtual Machine".
In this case 99.99% of Legacy hardware WILL run. XP mode IMO is a waste of time but running a Full Virtual machine under vmware or Vbox will give you what you want.
When creating this you perform an installation of the OS just like you would as if you were installing it on your physical computer.
The advantage is you DON'T need to dual boot and the old drivers will keep legacy hardware running indefintely.
Look at the virtualisation tutorials on the forum fore more info on this topic.
Cheers
jimbo
A Virtual machine is almost like running a physical XP machine except that it runs as an application on your Host machine say W7.
Forget XP mode for the moment -- that's a specialized case -- however if you run say Virtual Box or VMWARE on your W7 installation you can create a "Virtual Machine".
In this case 99.99% of Legacy hardware WILL run. XP mode IMO is a waste of time but running a Full Virtual machine under vmware or Vbox will give you what you want.
When creating this you perform an installation of the OS just like you would as if you were installing it on your physical computer.
The advantage is you DON'T need to dual boot and the old drivers will keep legacy hardware running indefintely.
Look at the virtualisation tutorials on the forum fore more info on this topic.
Cheers
jimbo
Well I hated vista and when I first saw Win 7 I did not care for it, but I did get used to it and start to like ot (I don't really miss XP much)
Although there still is a few things from XP I do miss
1: Win 7 changes where options are located (say to switch things in the control panel and such) So I needed to relearn where everything it, but that is not such a big deal anymore
2: I miss the Xp search. I thought it was easyer to find what I was looking for when there was check boxes to limied the file search to say video, pictures or audio. I don't use the search much now because I hate having to type "Type:mp3" when I want to find something
Although there still is a few things from XP I do miss
1: Win 7 changes where options are located (say to switch things in the control panel and such) So I needed to relearn where everything it, but that is not such a big deal anymore
2: I miss the Xp search. I thought it was easyer to find what I was looking for when there was check boxes to limied the file search to say video, pictures or audio. I don't use the search much now because I hate having to type "Type:mp3" when I want to find something
Quote:
So that means that if I install Windows XP in VMware running in Windows 7 as host OS then any peripheral that is not compatible with 7 (old USB HP printer and scanner in my case) will be recognized and working by using the virtual XP? Does this also include the PC's internal hardware? (my sound card is not 7 compatible). I posted this question some time ago in another forum and I was told that the virtual OS (XP in this case) can not override the host OS (7 in this case) drivers, and that therefore any windows 7 non compatible hardware would not run from the virtual XP.
Anything USB should work fine if you allow the virtual machine to take over control of the port. The easiest way to so this is to run the virtual machine and while it is focused, plug in the USB device. I.e. in VMWare, if you have windows 7 focussed and you plug in a thumb drive, Windows 7 takes control of it, if VMWare is focused when you plug it in then the Guest OS gets control of it.
The actual method of allowing one VM or anther have acess to one USB port or another probably varies.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by smsff7 2: I miss the Xp search. I thought it was easyer to find what I was looking for when there was check boxes to limied the file search to say video, pictures or audio. I don't use the search much now because I hate having to type "Type:mp3" when I want to find something
�� Quote: Originally Posted by fseal Sound and networking should work mostly well, the sound hardware in virtual machines is fairly basic so don't expect any super fancy sound features. You don't have access to your machines /actual/ sound card, but to a generic virtual sound interface that is then piped through your actual host OSes sound drivers.
Anything USB should work fine if you allow the virtual machine to take over control of the port. The easiest way to so this is to run the virtual machine and while it is focused, plug in the USB device. I.e. in VMWare, if you have windows 7 focussed and you plug in a thumb drive, Windows 7 takes control of it, if VMWare is focused when you plug it in then the Guest OS gets control of it.
The actual method of allowing one VM or anther have acess to one USB port or another probably varies.
Anything USB should work fine if you allow the virtual machine to take over control of the port. The easiest way to so this is to run the virtual machine and while it is focused, plug in the USB device. I.e. in VMWare, if you have windows 7 focussed and you plug in a thumb drive, Windows 7 takes control of it, if VMWare is focused when you plug it in then the Guest OS gets control of it.
The actual method of allowing one VM or anther have acess to one USB port or another probably varies.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by antares Will installing specific drivers for my XP devices (USB scanner, printer, internal sound card) in the virtual XP OS make any difference? Or they will be ignored and VMWare will use its own drivers?
With Microsoft providing XP support until 2014 and XP downgrade rights until 2020, XP will probably remain in history as the most successful OS ever.
Microsoft Pledges Windows XP Support Through 2014 -- Microsoft -- InformationWeek
Microsoft extends Windows XP downgrade rights until 2020 - Computerworld
Microsoft Pledges Windows XP Support Through 2014 -- Microsoft -- InformationWeek
Microsoft extends Windows XP downgrade rights until 2020 - Computerworld
�� Quote: Originally Posted by antares With Microsoft providing XP support until 2014 and XP downgrade rights until 2020, XP will probably remain in history as the most successful OS ever.
Microsoft Pledges Windows XP Support Through 2014 -- Microsoft -- InformationWeek
Microsoft extends Windows XP downgrade rights until 2020 - Computerworld
Microsoft Pledges Windows XP Support Through 2014 -- Microsoft -- InformationWeek
Microsoft extends Windows XP downgrade rights until 2020 - Computerworld
�� Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 #1). Windows XP was very easy to steal...especially with a volume license key so it didn't have to be activated. People could install it, share it and put it on whatever they want. It was way easier with XP than it is with Vista or 7. So, since it's not as easy to steal, just badmouth it and use the old stuff.
Anyway, my $0.02:
Personally, I think most XP users really don't "love or hate" Windows 7. Im sure there are plenty of XP "Fanbois" (hell we get alot of them on here) but I think most people probably don't care one way or the other. If it works, and runs their programs/hardware etc. then I doubt most people who aren't "in the know" would care whether its XP, Vista, 7 or even Windows 98!
We of course, are in a unique position, most of us are enthusiasts, and have followed Windows 7 on its long winding journey to being (in my humble opinion) the best Windows, hell the best (again, IMO) OS out there!
�� Quote: Originally Posted by severedsolo Windows 7 isn't exactly difficult to steal, but I'll say no more on that before I start violating rules
And with the Russia thing lately, it's been made basically public that Microsoft *does not* care about individual pirates, they care about the distributors and those facilitating the piracy. It makes sense, since those folks / organizations are where MS loses their money, not at the individual pirate level.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by cluberti And with the Russia thing lately, it's been made basically public that Microsoft *does not* care about individual pirates, they care about the distributors and those facilitating the piracy. It makes sense, since those folks / organizations are where MS loses their money, not at the individual pirate level.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by cluberti �� Quote: Originally Posted by smsff7 2: I miss the Xp search. I thought it was easyer to find what I was looking for when there was check boxes to limied the file search to say video, pictures or audio. I don't use the search much now because I hate having to type "Type:mp3" when I want to find something
it also is faster to limit where to search for the file
I still remember the day my mom received her laptop, she opens it up and it had windows 7 on it. I ordered it for her, and she got ticked off because I got her 7 over windows 2000. When I told her they didn't have that anymore she called Dell support and yelled at the guy for like an hour xD
I once got a 10 minute lecture from a guy yelling as loud as he possibly could that "Windows 98 was the greatest operating system Microsoft ever made and everything after that has been pure &*%#".
~Maxx~
.
~Maxx~
.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Maxxwire I once got a 10 minute lecture from a guy yelling as loud as he possibly could that "Windows 98 was the greatest operating system Microsoft ever made and everything after that has been pure &*%#".
~Maxx~
.
~Maxx~
.
YouTube - Bill Gates - Windows 98 crashing on live TV!
That's odd because neither Vista nor Win 7 have ever crashed on one of my computers.
~Maxx~
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~Maxx~
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�� Quote: Originally Posted by Compaker I still remember the day my mom received her laptop, she opens it up and it had windows 7 on it. I ordered it for her, and she got ticked off because I got her 7 over windows 2000. When I told her they didn't have that anymore she called Dell support and yelled at the guy for like an hour xD
Hi there
in 2020 who knows WHAT types of OS'es will be available. That's 9 years away -- and even 5 years in computing technology both hardware and software is equivalent to a Geological age.
Looking say at Windows 95 or 98 -- both OK for their time would be in Computing terms going back to the Jurassic era (perhaps that's where the expression "Dynosaur Technology" came from).
Cheers
jimbo
in 2020 who knows WHAT types of OS'es will be available. That's 9 years away -- and even 5 years in computing technology both hardware and software is equivalent to a Geological age.
Looking say at Windows 95 or 98 -- both OK for their time would be in Computing terms going back to the Jurassic era (perhaps that's where the expression "Dynosaur Technology" came from).
Cheers
jimbo
Windows 7 is the BEST operating system I have ever used. Its also the BEST of all OSs by Micro$oft. Period.
If they want to stick with XP, that is fine but I am really upset about them making rants about Windows 7. Sure, its not perfect but its way better than Windows XP. If you learn how to tweak it and make use of its superior functions than XP, you'll love it way better. With modern hardware and software being made and developed, they have less to complain about.
Its their problem that Microsoft are slowly killing Windows XP. I guess they were right that technology doesn't stand still and neither could them.
If they want to stick with XP, that is fine but I am really upset about them making rants about Windows 7. Sure, its not perfect but its way better than Windows XP. If you learn how to tweak it and make use of its superior functions than XP, you'll love it way better. With modern hardware and software being made and developed, they have less to complain about.
Its their problem that Microsoft are slowly killing Windows XP. I guess they were right that technology doesn't stand still and neither could them.
I like my XP.
Kinda like an old pair of comfortable shoes.
They aren't worn out but getting scuffed and the heel is a bit thin.
I love my Win7 after just a few weeks of use but I can't throw out those old shoes quite yet.
Besides my old games play nicely on XP.
Mike
Kinda like an old pair of comfortable shoes.
They aren't worn out but getting scuffed and the heel is a bit thin.
I love my Win7 after just a few weeks of use but I can't throw out those old shoes quite yet.
Besides my old games play nicely on XP.
Mike
�� Quote: Originally Posted by cluberti And with the Russia thing lately, it's been made basically public that Microsoft *does not* care about individual pirates, they care about the distributors and those facilitating the piracy. It makes sense, since those folks / organizations are where MS loses their money, not at the individual pirate level.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Hopalong X I like my XP.
Kinda like an old pair of comfortable shoes.
They aren't worn out but getting scuffed and the heel is a bit thin.
Mike
Kinda like an old pair of comfortable shoes.
They aren't worn out but getting scuffed and the heel is a bit thin.
Mike
~Maxx~
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