System imaging should be a common practice with modern PCs, although many have never heard of or understand the importance of it.
It should be considered, not only for unexpected drive failure, but as a form of system security as well.
Although it should never be used in place of a proper security setup. Proper Security is still top priority.
Everyone should be aware of its importance, and IMHO, put it into practice.
4. Acronis ( Backup and restore system software and PC system utilities for Windows and Linux OSs)
Acronis is a paid software & offers many advanced features such as Incremental, Differential backups. As well automatic scheduled task and much more.
** Many HD manufactures also offer a free version of Acronis (such as Western Digital) This is a basic version of the software allowing you to clone and make basic back ups. You just need to register your product to gain access to it.
It should be considered, not only for unexpected drive failure, but as a form of system security as well.
Although it should never be used in place of a proper security setup. Proper Security is still top priority.
Everyone should be aware of its importance, and IMHO, put it into practice.
What is System Imaging?
Imaging is quite simply a "snapshot" of the partiton or Hard Drive you Imaged.
It is an exact copy of your Windows installation, files,folders settings etc at that exact moment in time the image is created.
Why is System Imaging important?
As we all know, the first defense against a Virus and/or Malware attack is your Security system itself. (AV & Firewall)
Generally speaking, the name of the game is preventing an infection from ever happening.
Generally speaking, the name of the game is preventing an infection from ever happening.
But what happens when dispite our best efforts something gets through?
Many times, you can remove & recover from an infection.
However, occasionally the damage may be so severe there simply is no recovery, in which case a clean install of Windows may be needed.
However, occasionally the damage may be so severe there simply is no recovery, in which case a clean install of Windows may be needed.
There are also other factors you must consider that may not involve a Malware or Virus infection at all.
Such as:
1) A failing or defective harddrive.
2) A Bad software or driver Update
3) File Corruption
4) Registry corruption or system file corruption
(which may not be able to be repaired)
1) A failing or defective harddrive.
2) A Bad software or driver Update
3) File Corruption
4) Registry corruption or system file corruption
(which may not be able to be repaired)
These things can be caused by faulty software, user error etc.
In the event something bad does happen, and all resources including System Restore fail, you can simply re-image the Entire system back to a know good state.
Quite lierally, anything that happened or changed after that image was created, never happened.
What is the best method to use for a System Image?
There are a few options at your disposal. Many of which are free, and cost only a couple minutes of your time. The payoff however, should you ever need it, will be worth its weight in gold.
Some of the most common & recommended software is as follows:
1. Windows 7 built in Imaging
Free & included with Windows 7
Free & included with Windows 7
2. Macrium Reflect ( Macrium Reflect Backup and Hard Disk Imaging for Windows 7, Vista, XP and Server 2003/2008)
Tutorial: Imaging with free Macrium
Macrium offers a free and paid version of their software.
Macrium offers a free and paid version of their software.
3. Paragon Free Backup Software: Paragon Backup & Recovery Free Edition - Overview
Paragon offers a free and paid version of the software.
Paragon offers a free and paid version of the software.
4. Acronis ( Backup and restore system software and PC system utilities for Windows and Linux OSs)
Acronis is a paid software & offers many advanced features such as Incremental, Differential backups. As well automatic scheduled task and much more.
** Many HD manufactures also offer a free version of Acronis (such as Western Digital) This is a basic version of the software allowing you to clone and make basic back ups. You just need to register your product to gain access to it.
When should I make a Image and how often?
1) The first Image you should make should be right after you install Windows.
Install your prefered imaging software and activate Windows.
Make a image right then!
This way, you always have a fresh, clean activated image Windows with no drivers or software you can fall back on.
Burn this Image to a DVD, or an external HD and store it somewhere safe.
Install your prefered imaging software and activate Windows.
Make a image right then!
This way, you always have a fresh, clean activated image Windows with no drivers or software you can fall back on.
Burn this Image to a DVD, or an external HD and store it somewhere safe.
2) The next main image you should make is after you get all your main software installed, activated, updated, and Windows set up the way you want it.
3) Before any major system change.
This includes installation of any new software, Updating or rolling back graphics drivers etc.
This includes installation of any new software, Updating or rolling back graphics drivers etc.
4) Before any major update/patch such as Windows updates.
5) How often you image will depend how often you change things on your system, and your own habits.
I would suggest a complete Image at least once a week.
As long as space is not a issue, you can really never make to many.
I would suggest a complete Image at least once a week.
As long as space is not a issue, you can really never make to many.
For how often, just keep in mind:
If something devastating happened right now, how many days could you lose without losing to much work? A week, 2 days?
If something devastating happened right now, how many days could you lose without losing to much work? A week, 2 days?
Remember, its a good habit to keep a few images in store. Perhaps 1 or 2 a week fro the last month.
Not just the most current.
Not just the most current.
I can not stress the importance creating System Images has.
Many of the tools are completely free (unless you wish to have extra features) and cost only a few minutes of time.
The time it can & will save you in case of disaster however, will be significant.
Many of the tools are completely free (unless you wish to have extra features) and cost only a few minutes of time.
The time it can & will save you in case of disaster however, will be significant.
This should be stickied. Or at least put in security basics.
+1 for Macrium
Excellent Post! I agree, it should be,
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Petey7 
Also agree,
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Lemur
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Petey7 This should be stickied. Or at least put in security basics.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Lemur +1 for Macrium
Excellent - maybe it can find a place in the tutorial section.
Thanks 
I wasn't sure exactly where to put it. As a tutorial or a topic.
I thought this may be the best place for it.
Hopefully between everyone we decide the best place for it.
I wasn't sure exactly where to put it. As a tutorial or a topic.
I thought this may be the best place for it.
Hopefully between everyone we decide the best place for it.
Macrium FTW!!!
Very well said Wishmaster!!! This should be required reading for all new members... Its sooo much easier/faster to restore an image than reinstall the OS/programs... 
Although I do use system imaging from time to time, with as fast as it is to load an operating system these days and the fact that I keep my data backed up separately, I don't find that imaging is an absolute necessity. For most people though, who don't want to go through the hassle or put in the effort, this makes sense and should be strongly considered.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 Although I do use system imaging from time to time, with as fast as it is to load an operating system these days and the fact that I keep my data backed up separately, I don't find that imaging is an absolute necessity. For most people though, who don't want to go through the hassle or put in the effort, this makes sense and should be strongly considered.
The real problem with a fresh install is that you get swamped with the updates. The other day I reinstalled a Vista from a 2007 recovery partition. It took 3 days just to get all the updates sorted out including SP1 and SP2. Then there are all the programs (about 50 in my case) and system and program settings. So I think setting back to a sensible image which takes 30 minutes is a much better deal.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by whs The real problem with a fresh install is that you get swamped with the updates. The other day I reinstalled a Vista from a 2007 recovery partition. It took 3 days just to get all the updates sorted out including SP1 and SP2. Then there are all the programs (about 50 in my case) and system and program settings. So I think setting back to a sensible image which takes 30 minutes is a much better deal.
Excellent Post 
I use Paragon Drive Backup, I find it really easy to use & only ever need to use the bootable USB you can create.
Yeah, all I do is do a fresh install & obtain all relevant updates & drivers then make sure everything is set how I want it then just image the drive.
A restore of my system usually takes around ten minutes maybe less.
Never failed me yet
I had a look at Macruim the other day but there doesn't seem to be a bootable USB option, unless I'm not looking hard enough (only saw CD/DVD creation available) which is my main reason for using PDB, I can do a backup & restore all from the bootable USB.
Use it with my Netbook as well.
I use Paragon Drive Backup, I find it really easy to use & only ever need to use the bootable USB you can create.
Yeah, all I do is do a fresh install & obtain all relevant updates & drivers then make sure everything is set how I want it then just image the drive.
A restore of my system usually takes around ten minutes maybe less.
Never failed me yet
I had a look at Macruim the other day but there doesn't seem to be a bootable USB option, unless I'm not looking hard enough (only saw CD/DVD creation available) which is my main reason for using PDB, I can do a backup & restore all from the bootable USB.
Use it with my Netbook as well.
With free Macrium you can image to a USB stick, but the recovery CD must be a CD. There is no stick option.
hi !
my thread: A few tips about performance etc. might be of interest.
i use a "clean" system-partition and different partitions for programs & documents / media.
this saves a LOT of time when creating or restoring backups.
fx. restoring W7 with Macrium takes 14 minutes, on a IDE-disk.
i think it would be even faster if i had a SATA-disk....
my thread: A few tips about performance etc. might be of interest.
i use a "clean" system-partition and different partitions for programs & documents / media.
this saves a LOT of time when creating or restoring backups.
fx. restoring W7 with Macrium takes 14 minutes, on a IDE-disk.
i think it would be even faster if i had a SATA-disk....
First off, nice article. Nice intro to imaging. Props to you.
IT techs, and the industry as a whole, have, of course, been imaging for years, and years, and years. But for the average user, it's probably something that most of them didn't realize they could do. And I would have to say, most of them shouldn't do, unless done right. Otherwise, it will just be a time consuming, painful and likely expensive mess.
Can you imagine how much work would be involved in constantly creating different images for for a 1TB HDD. It'd be insane.
Now, making an image using something like N-Lite, and then installing all your favorite apps on there, and maybe some really important static data, would be a good idea. But I would have to stick with backing up changing data on a USB. I know that even 3 or 4 years from now, I'm still going to want Wireshark installed, still going to want Ableton Live installed, still going want Visual Studio installed. But will I want the 200GBS of BS I downloaded off the internet? Probably not.
N-Lite
So, my imaging solution would be
1. Base / Clean Install Image with favorite Apps
2. I would include my music / movie / ebook collection (important static data)
3. Crap apps and data I would keep on a USB
That way, if I need to access my image, I'll always have my music, always have my favorite apps, and I'll still have a number of USB's, no doubt filled with crap, that I can pick and choose from. And I only have to update my image every few years, and only when I have a significant enough of new favorite apps, that I can't live without.
I just can't imagine constantly imaging a huge HDD. What a pain
IT techs, and the industry as a whole, have, of course, been imaging for years, and years, and years. But for the average user, it's probably something that most of them didn't realize they could do. And I would have to say, most of them shouldn't do, unless done right. Otherwise, it will just be a time consuming, painful and likely expensive mess.
Can you imagine how much work would be involved in constantly creating different images for for a 1TB HDD. It'd be insane.
Now, making an image using something like N-Lite, and then installing all your favorite apps on there, and maybe some really important static data, would be a good idea. But I would have to stick with backing up changing data on a USB. I know that even 3 or 4 years from now, I'm still going to want Wireshark installed, still going to want Ableton Live installed, still going want Visual Studio installed. But will I want the 200GBS of BS I downloaded off the internet? Probably not.
N-Lite
So, my imaging solution would be
1. Base / Clean Install Image with favorite Apps
2. I would include my music / movie / ebook collection (important static data)
3. Crap apps and data I would keep on a USB
That way, if I need to access my image, I'll always have my music, always have my favorite apps, and I'll still have a number of USB's, no doubt filled with crap, that I can pick and choose from. And I only have to update my image every few years, and only when I have a significant enough of new favorite apps, that I can't live without.
I just can't imagine constantly imaging a huge HDD. What a pain
Thats what differential backups are for...
I think everyone does it differently depending on preference.
My system Images consist of the just the OS Drive.
Meaning Windows itself and all installed applications/programs.
I also have mine set to make a Full back and then daily incrementals for 7 days.
After 1 week, Start create a new Full back up & Consolodate previous week.
Usually takes about 6-7 minutes to back (full) & restore.
Games go on a seperate Drive and get there own Disc Image.
I also keep all other DATA separated from the OS, on other drives and each gets their own seperate Back Up archive.
Since My Music, Pictures, Videos etc change far less compared to the OS I usually just make a full Image monthly with weekly Incrementals.
With the exception of My Documents. It has the same Priority as the OS
Unless a new game is installed, I just make a new image once a month and weekly incrementals for these as well.
I know many may think my back Up habit are a bit over the top or even too many seperate ones,
but I wouldn't want Personal DATA & Games mixed with the OS and Apps. (Especially for the Image)
It makes things much more difficult & Time consuming IMHO.
My system Images consist of the just the OS Drive.
Meaning Windows itself and all installed applications/programs.
I also have mine set to make a Full back and then daily incrementals for 7 days.
After 1 week, Start create a new Full back up & Consolodate previous week.
Usually takes about 6-7 minutes to back (full) & restore.
Games go on a seperate Drive and get there own Disc Image.
I also keep all other DATA separated from the OS, on other drives and each gets their own seperate Back Up archive.
Since My Music, Pictures, Videos etc change far less compared to the OS I usually just make a full Image monthly with weekly Incrementals.
With the exception of My Documents. It has the same Priority as the OS
Unless a new game is installed, I just make a new image once a month and weekly incrementals for these as well.
I know many may think my back Up habit are a bit over the top or even too many seperate ones,
but I wouldn't want Personal DATA & Games mixed with the OS and Apps. (Especially for the Image)
It makes things much more difficult & Time consuming IMHO.
@Wishmaster
I agree, that's what I'm saying. Clean OS Image (trimmed with N-Lite/equivalent), Favorite Apps, Important Static Data (Music, Movies, etc). My install takes a bit longer, but all I have to do is pop the CD in, boot from CD-ROM, and come back and its all there. Then move some data from USB.
And of course, I only have to do this when something goes wrong. What program do you use for imaging, anyway?
I agree, that's what I'm saying. Clean OS Image (trimmed with N-Lite/equivalent), Favorite Apps, Important Static Data (Music, Movies, etc). My install takes a bit longer, but all I have to do is pop the CD in, boot from CD-ROM, and come back and its all there. Then move some data from USB.
And of course, I only have to do this when something goes wrong. What program do you use for imaging, anyway?
My personal prefrence is Acronis, but mostly because of the extra features.
Automated incrementals, consolodation etc is quite nice.
I tend to be forgetful at times, and it doesnt let me.
Been a couple times I went to install something new, or roll back a graphic driver and 1/2 way through think ...
BAH.. should have made a back up 1st .. then realize it had already done it for me
Automated incrementals, consolodation etc is quite nice.
I tend to be forgetful at times, and it doesnt let me.
Been a couple times I went to install something new, or roll back a graphic driver and 1/2 way through think ...
BAH.. should have made a back up 1st .. then realize it had already done it for me
This is a nice, usefull discussion, and hopefully it will stay up on the net for years to come. Let me add some great Open Source (Free) Backup solutions, some geared towards users, some towards IT, some both. App names in RED are geared towards IT. Apps in BLUE are geared towards users.
CloneZilla: Clonezilla, based on DRBL, Partclone and udpcast, allows you to do bare metal backup and recovery. Two types of Clonezilla are available, Clonezilla live and Clonezilla SE (server edition). Clonezilla live is suitable for single machine backup and restore. While Clonezilla SE is for massive deployment, it can clone many (40 plus!) computers simultaneously. Clonezilla saves and restores only used blocks in the harddisk. This increases the clone efficiency. At the NCHC's Classroom C, Clonezilla SE was used to clone 41 computers simultaneously. It took only about 10 minutes to clone a 5.6 GBytes system image to all 41 computers via multicasting!
Amanda Community Edition: Amanda is the most popular open source backup and recovery software in the world. Amanda protects more than half a million servers and desktops running various versions of Linux, UNIX, BSD, Mac OS-X and Microsoft Windows operating systems worldwide.
Redo Backup & Recovery: Redo Backup and Recovery is so simple that anyone can use it. It is the easiest, most complete disaster recovery solution available. It allows bare-metal restore, which means that even if your hard drive melts or gets completely erased by a virus, you can have a completely-functional system back up and running in as little as 10 minutes.
ODIN - Open Disk Imager In A Nutshell: ODIN is a utility for easy backup of hard drive volumes or complete hard drives under Windows. A disk image can be created or restored. Only used clusters can be backuped, compression on the fly is possible. It runs under 32-Bit Windows Operating Systems. How many hours did you spend in setting up your Windows system? Setting up the operating system, installing programs, customizing to your personal needs. Do you want to be protected against hard disk failures, viruses or other malware? Just restore your system within minutes. Why spend money for a commercial solution? ODIN supports snapshots can be run from command line or with a GUI and runs on 32-Bit and 46-Bit operating systems. (note, ODIN has a great CMD interface, for scripting).
UBCD4WIN - Ultimate Boot CD For Windows: BCD4Win is a bootable recovery CD that contains software used for repairing, restoring, or diagnosing almost any computer problem. Our goal is to be the most complete and easy to use free computer diagnostic tool. Almost all software included in UBCD4Win are freeware utilities for Windows�. Some of the tools inlcuded are "free for personal use" copies so users need to respect these licenses. A few of the tools included in UBCD4Win are paid for and licensed software owned by UBCD4win. (Have to include this, as it includes a free copy of Norton Ghost 8 )
CloneZilla: Clonezilla, based on DRBL, Partclone and udpcast, allows you to do bare metal backup and recovery. Two types of Clonezilla are available, Clonezilla live and Clonezilla SE (server edition). Clonezilla live is suitable for single machine backup and restore. While Clonezilla SE is for massive deployment, it can clone many (40 plus!) computers simultaneously. Clonezilla saves and restores only used blocks in the harddisk. This increases the clone efficiency. At the NCHC's Classroom C, Clonezilla SE was used to clone 41 computers simultaneously. It took only about 10 minutes to clone a 5.6 GBytes system image to all 41 computers via multicasting!
Amanda Community Edition: Amanda is the most popular open source backup and recovery software in the world. Amanda protects more than half a million servers and desktops running various versions of Linux, UNIX, BSD, Mac OS-X and Microsoft Windows operating systems worldwide.
Redo Backup & Recovery: Redo Backup and Recovery is so simple that anyone can use it. It is the easiest, most complete disaster recovery solution available. It allows bare-metal restore, which means that even if your hard drive melts or gets completely erased by a virus, you can have a completely-functional system back up and running in as little as 10 minutes.
ODIN - Open Disk Imager In A Nutshell: ODIN is a utility for easy backup of hard drive volumes or complete hard drives under Windows. A disk image can be created or restored. Only used clusters can be backuped, compression on the fly is possible. It runs under 32-Bit Windows Operating Systems. How many hours did you spend in setting up your Windows system? Setting up the operating system, installing programs, customizing to your personal needs. Do you want to be protected against hard disk failures, viruses or other malware? Just restore your system within minutes. Why spend money for a commercial solution? ODIN supports snapshots can be run from command line or with a GUI and runs on 32-Bit and 46-Bit operating systems. (note, ODIN has a great CMD interface, for scripting).
UBCD4WIN - Ultimate Boot CD For Windows: BCD4Win is a bootable recovery CD that contains software used for repairing, restoring, or diagnosing almost any computer problem. Our goal is to be the most complete and easy to use free computer diagnostic tool. Almost all software included in UBCD4Win are freeware utilities for Windows�. Some of the tools inlcuded are "free for personal use" copies so users need to respect these licenses. A few of the tools included in UBCD4Win are paid for and licensed software owned by UBCD4win. (Have to include this, as it includes a free copy of Norton Ghost 8 )
THIS NEEDS TO BE A STICKY!!! Macrium Reflect is my best friend!
�� Quote: Originally Posted by eldinv THIS NEEDS TO BE A STICKY!!! Macrium Reflect is my best friend!
Same here because Macrium Reflect is extremely reliable in that it has never failed me, its very simple to use, and its extremely fast at backing up the 22 GB on my C drive in 3 minutes and 35 seconds at speeds in excess of 650 Mbps!
~Maxx~
I use Shadow Protect Desktop from StorageCraft. It's very reliable, rock solid and one of the fastest image backup applications on the market, see this: 10 Commercial Disk Imaging Software Features and Backup/Restore Speed Comparison | Raymond.CC Blog
Hi
First post here.
I've been browsing the forum for a wee while and I've got plenty of useful advice, particularly in regards to getting rid of McAfee and using MSE and MBAM instead.
I have a quick question as a Win7 noob about sytem images.
My computer is set to back up to an external drive once a week using Windows Backup and my understanding is that this includes a system image. I've attached a screenshot to show what I mean.
My question is, is this the same type of image as is being discussed in this thread and would this restore me to a current working system if needed?
Thanks
First post here.
I've been browsing the forum for a wee while and I've got plenty of useful advice, particularly in regards to getting rid of McAfee and using MSE and MBAM instead.
I have a quick question as a Win7 noob about sytem images.
My computer is set to back up to an external drive once a week using Windows Backup and my understanding is that this includes a system image. I've attached a screenshot to show what I mean.
My question is, is this the same type of image as is being discussed in this thread and would this restore me to a current working system if needed?
Thanks
It looks like you have 110GBs worth of images and another 36GBs worth of file backups. If those files reside on the OS partition, then seperate backups would not reall be required. They are part of the images. The only problem is that the Windows7 imaging facility makes it awkward to mount them. That is why I prefer free Macrium which is a lot easier to understand and to operate.
However, if your data is in a seperate data partition (which is highly recommended), then you need to backup that data seperately - either with data backup or with an image of the data partition.
To answer your question about restoration I always recommend to make at least one trial run to make sure it works correctly. For that I create a little test partition which I image and restore. That way I do not risk to srew up the system.
However, if your data is in a seperate data partition (which is highly recommended), then you need to backup that data seperately - either with data backup or with an image of the data partition.
To answer your question about restoration I always recommend to make at least one trial run to make sure it works correctly. For that I create a little test partition which I image and restore. That way I do not risk to srew up the system.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by whs It looks like you have 110GBs worth of images and another 36GBs worth of file backups. If those files reside on the OS partition, then seperate backups would not reall be required. They are part of the images. The only problem is that the Windows7 imaging facility makes it awkward to mount them. That is why I prefer free Macrium which is a lot easier to understand and to operate.
However, if your data is in a seperate data partition (which is highly recommended), then you need to backup that data seperately - either with data backup or with an image of the data partition.
To answer your question about restoration I always recommend to make at least one trial run to make sure it works correctly. For that I create a little test partition which I image and restore. That way I do not risk to srew up the system.
However, if your data is in a seperate data partition (which is highly recommended), then you need to backup that data seperately - either with data backup or with an image of the data partition.
To answer your question about restoration I always recommend to make at least one trial run to make sure it works correctly. For that I create a little test partition which I image and restore. That way I do not risk to srew up the system.
I've done a little bit of reading in the interim and it looks as though I do indeed have a system image and separate file backups beyond that. It seems to be set that way to allow me to restore all or some files without having to restore from a system image, which suits me fine.
Thanks again for the help, this thread has been very useful.
Hi all
OF COURSE you should always backup your system and data -- but be aware of a little problem which will catch the unwary out.
If you image the system (or at least the OS partition) using non MS software such as Acronis / Macrium etc. etc. there is often a hidden small SYSTEM partition.
On restore you might get a BSOD on booting up the system.
Don't panic however as booting from the OS install disk and running the REPAIR option will fix this.
The problem is caused by a change in W7 to the boot manager. Nothing to be worried about but if you DO get this symptom then it's easily fixed.
On installing W7 for the first time I would allocate THE WHOLE DISK to have a SINGLE partition so the OS install won't then t create this hidden system partition.
After I've installed the OS I would then use something like GPARTED to "shrink" the OS partition to say around 30 - 40 GB for W7 and then have my DATA on other partitions which I could then create from the free space released.
Cheers
jimbo
OF COURSE you should always backup your system and data -- but be aware of a little problem which will catch the unwary out.
If you image the system (or at least the OS partition) using non MS software such as Acronis / Macrium etc. etc. there is often a hidden small SYSTEM partition.
On restore you might get a BSOD on booting up the system.
Don't panic however as booting from the OS install disk and running the REPAIR option will fix this.
The problem is caused by a change in W7 to the boot manager. Nothing to be worried about but if you DO get this symptom then it's easily fixed.
On installing W7 for the first time I would allocate THE WHOLE DISK to have a SINGLE partition so the OS install won't then t create this hidden system partition.
After I've installed the OS I would then use something like GPARTED to "shrink" the OS partition to say around 30 - 40 GB for W7 and then have my DATA on other partitions which I could then create from the free space released.
Cheers
jimbo
�� Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 If you image the system (or at least the OS partition) using non MS software such as Acronis / Macrium etc. etc. there is often a hidden small SYSTEM partition.
Hi there
Even when you include this in the backup the system will sometimes BSOD on bootup after restore --so that's why I added the warning and how to avoid the problem altogether.
Of course if you DON'T experience the problem then fine -- but I've taken over 500 backups of various W7 versions types over the last few months so have experienced all sorts of "hiccups".
Better to be prepared than rely on a backup and then get stuck with no internet / google on how to fix.
Where the problem manifests itself frequently is if you are MOVING the OS to a different HDD (You've replaced a disk or you've altered the boot sequence to a new "C" drive) or you have adjusted the sizes of partitions before restoring.
The system partition as far as I can see contains some fixed physical pointers so if you've changed the partition geometry then these pointers are hosed up.
System Repair from the OS install DVD will fix these.
Cheers
jimbo
Even when you include this in the backup the system will sometimes BSOD on bootup after restore --so that's why I added the warning and how to avoid the problem altogether.
Of course if you DON'T experience the problem then fine -- but I've taken over 500 backups of various W7 versions types over the last few months so have experienced all sorts of "hiccups".
Better to be prepared than rely on a backup and then get stuck with no internet / google on how to fix.
Where the problem manifests itself frequently is if you are MOVING the OS to a different HDD (You've replaced a disk or you've altered the boot sequence to a new "C" drive) or you have adjusted the sizes of partitions before restoring.
The system partition as far as I can see contains some fixed physical pointers so if you've changed the partition geometry then these pointers are hosed up.
System Repair from the OS install DVD will fix these.
Cheers
jimbo
Ahh really? didn't know that Always good to know, I haven't had that particular issue
Thanks for the heads up jimbo
Always good to know, I haven't had that particular issue Thanks for the heads up jimbo
If you have the little 100MB partition as active boot partition, you need to image that only once - for the case when the disk hardware itself goes south. But as long as the disk runs well, there is no need to restore this partition. You need to only restore the OS partition. Just make sure you select "Do not restore MBR" during the restoration. Like e.g. here in Macrium:
Why would you only image the 100mb partition once? Why not do it every time? I understand it doesn't change much...but it's tiny, has next to nothing in it, and takes up about 0.000000001% of your total backup space.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 Why would you only image the 100mb partition once? Why not do it every time? I understand it doesn't change much...but it's tiny, has next to nothing in it, and takes up about 0.000000001% of your total backup space.
Good tip Jimbo45.
I think the failure to boot issue may be due to Imaging just the OS partition?
I bring this up because, I have never had a boot issue w/Acronis personally.
But, My OS is on a 40GB SSD, and I do a complete disk Image of that drive..
This method images the entire disk as is:
All Partitions incl. the hidden 100MB, Alignment, Disk Signature, .. everything.
We all may have slightly different methods, but I find just doing the entire disc rather than partition is much easier.
Although this may not always be practical for all setups.
But I have seen the exact issue Jimbo45 describes if just the OS partition is imaged.
And as mentioned, easily remedied however.
I think the failure to boot issue may be due to Imaging just the OS partition?
I bring this up because, I have never had a boot issue w/Acronis personally.
But, My OS is on a 40GB SSD, and I do a complete disk Image of that drive..
This method images the entire disk as is:
All Partitions incl. the hidden 100MB, Alignment, Disk Signature, .. everything.
We all may have slightly different methods, but I find just doing the entire disc rather than partition is much easier.
Although this may not always be practical for all setups.
But I have seen the exact issue Jimbo45 describes if just the OS partition is imaged.
And as mentioned, easily remedied however.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by whs Because it never changes at all. It is an unneccesary additional step.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by whs I appreciate the minute space requirement, but why bother.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by whs Because it never changes at all. It is an unneccesary additional step.
tell Acronis to image System Reserved along with C every Sunday at 19.00Hrs, make 3 incremental backups before deleting all backups and making a new full backup (so once a month I get a fresh backup).
For me, removing "System Reserved" from the drives to be imaged would actually be more effort, because once it's done, I just let it do its thing, and remind myself not to do anything particularly intensive on a Sunday evening.
Course we all have our own way of doing it, and whats right for me isn't right for everyone else.
Doesn't Windows built in imaging automatically image System Reserved too? its been a while since I used it, can't remember.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 Although I do use system imaging from time to time, with as fast as it is to load an operating system these days and the fact that I keep my data backed up separately, I don't find that imaging is an absolute necessity. For most people though, who don't want to go through the hassle or put in the effort, this makes sense and should be strongly considered.
Hi there PParks
While it IS true that re-installing an OS is very fast these days the problem comes in re-installing your applications such as say Photoshop CS5 etc.
You have to go through the trouble of finding all your serial numbers and also ALL THE UPDATES to the product since you initially installed it.
My DATA is always on separate drives -- so are things like Database stuff but applications usually are installed within Windows so all the entries such as .exe, .dll and registry entries are on your "C" or OS drive. You don't want the registry to get out of sync with your application.
I suggest like the consensus on this thread that it IS a good idea to Image your system regularly -- and of course back up your OTHER data too.
Cheers
jimbo
Yes, I do understand the benefits of imaging a machine. In fact, I use Acronis True Image Home 2010 at home myself and use a combination of Macrium and EaseUsToDo Backup for a couple of lab boxes that I use at work. But I also don't install much software and next to nothing is licensed (only Acronis and my games...everything else I use is open source or freeware)...so the setting back up part for me is relatively easy. Clearly this is a bit different than most other people and I did acknowledge that for most.....doing an image is a wise idea.
In retrospect, I guess I probably would have refrained from making that original post as I clearly was just debating the concept of necessity rather than good idea.
In retrospect, I guess I probably would have refrained from making that original post as I clearly was just debating the concept of necessity rather than good idea.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by whs If you have the little 100MB partition as active boot partition, you need to image that only once - for the case when the disk hardware itself goes south. But as long as the disk runs well, there is no need to restore this partition. You need to only restore the OS partition. Just make sure you select "Do not restore MBR" during the restoration.
After this frightful experience which is the very first time Macrium Reflect has ever failed me I am looking to the following advise from jimbo45 to avoid having this problem again which I am quite sure was because either I did not replace the MBR or did not include it when I created the backup image in Reflect.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 Hi all
OF COURSE you should always backup your system and data -- but be aware of a little problem which will catch the unwary out.
If you image the system (or at least the OS partition) using non MS software such as Acronis / Macrium etc. etc. there is often a hidden small SYSTEM partition.
On restore you might get a BSOD on booting up the system.
Don't panic however as booting from the OS install disk and running the REPAIR option will fix this.
The problem is caused by a change in W7 to the boot manager. Nothing to be worried about but if you DO get this symptom then it's easily fixed.
Cheers
jimbo
OF COURSE you should always backup your system and data -- but be aware of a little problem which will catch the unwary out.
If you image the system (or at least the OS partition) using non MS software such as Acronis / Macrium etc. etc. there is often a hidden small SYSTEM partition.
On restore you might get a BSOD on booting up the system.
Don't panic however as booting from the OS install disk and running the REPAIR option will fix this.
The problem is caused by a change in W7 to the boot manager. Nothing to be worried about but if you DO get this symptom then it's easily fixed.
Cheers
jimbo
I am a little confused though over the disparity of opinions about how to successfully restore Win 7 from a Macrium Reflect Backup Image in that I have found out what doesn't work, but I am still unclear as to exactly what process does work. With Win 7 should I back up the 100 MB active boot partition along with the OS and restore them together, or can I simply select Restore MBR for a successful Image restore with Macruim Reflect???
~Maxx~
My guess would be that the problem came from the fact that you declared the partition as Active and not as Primary.
Of course there is one other alternative to this hidden partition debate.
If you use diskpart to create a single partion when initially installing Windows, the hidden partition will never be created.
It will be created as a hidden folder on the OS partition instead.
Going this route, this eliminates the need to back up or restore the MBR at all doesn't it?
The single partiton should also be active.
If you use diskpart to create a single partion when initially installing Windows, the hidden partition will never be created.
It will be created as a hidden folder on the OS partition instead.
Going this route, this eliminates the need to back up or restore the MBR at all doesn't it?
The single partiton should also be active.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by whs My guess would be that the problem came from the fact that you declared the partition as Active and not as Primary.
Are you saying that with Win 7 the Image that the OS is on must be restored as a Primary partition all by itself without restoring the MBR or the 100 MB active boot partition and that jimbo45's admonition:
"If you image the system (or at least the OS partition) using non MS software such as Acronis / Macrium etc. etc. there is often a hidden small SYSTEM partition. On restore you might get a BSOD on booting up the system. The problem is caused by a change in W7 to the boot manager" is baseless and should be ignored?
Again, please bear with me because I need to know precisely what to do next time I'm in the PE and at the moment I'm getting two opposite sets of instructions of how to restore an Image with Macrium Reflect in Win 7. Thanks for your patience.
~Maxx~
If you have the 100MB partion:
The 100MB hidden partition is the Active partition.
The partition Win7 is installed is a Primary
If you install without the Hidden partition, The entire partition is "Active" just like Vista.
The 100MB hidden partition is the Active partition.
The partition Win7 is installed is a Primary
If you install without the Hidden partition, The entire partition is "Active" just like Vista.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Wishmaster If you have the 100MB partion:
The 100MB hidden partition is the Active partition.
The partition Win7 is installed is a Primary
The 100MB hidden partition is the Active partition.
The partition Win7 is installed is a Primary
"Some, not all, Windows 7 installations include a hidden, 100MB 'System Reserved' partition. If this partition exists then it is the 'Active' partition on the system and contains the Boot Configuration Data (BCD).
If your PC has a 'System Reserved' partition:
1. When restoring back to the original disk restore your 'C' partition as 'Primary' not 'Active'. It isn't necessary to restore the SR partition.
2. If you are restoring to a new/different disk then you should first restore the SR partition as 'Active' then 'C' as 'Primary'. Do not increase the size of the SR partition.
3. If you take the fix boot problems then make the SR the 'Active' partition.
If your PC doesn't have a 'System Reserved' partition:
1. Restore 'C' as the 'Active' partition.
2. If you take the fix boot problems then make 'C' the 'Active' partition."
Hope this helps
Nick - Macrium Support
~Maxx~
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Wishmaster Of course there is one other alternative to this hidden partition debate.
If you use diskpart to create a single partion when initially installing Windows, the hidden partition will never be created.
It will be created as a hidden folder on the OS partition instead.
Going this route, this eliminates the need to back up or restore the MBR at all doesn't it?
The single partiton should also be active.
If you use diskpart to create a single partion when initially installing Windows, the hidden partition will never be created.
It will be created as a hidden folder on the OS partition instead.
Going this route, this eliminates the need to back up or restore the MBR at all doesn't it?
The single partiton should also be active.
After you've installed Windows 7 the first time you can then use something like GPARTED (Free download) to "shrink" the partition to say 60 or so GB and then partition the rest of your disk how you want it -- I have one partition for Data, one for Web related stuff and one for multi-media (audio / video).
If you have more than one HDD use a SEPARATE disk for Windows paging area and any photoshop scratch files. Moving photoshop scratch files on to a separate disk from the OS will improve performance.
Cheers
jim
Maxxwire, I think Wishmaster clarified the "Active" question. If you mark a partition (e.g. C) as Active, the BIOS will be looking on that partition for the MBR. But if the MBR is on the 100MB partition, it will not find it and you get the error that you have seen.
In your Vista examples you did not have that 100MB partition and the MBR was on C. So it was the active partition by default.
In your Vista examples you did not have that 100MB partition and the MBR was on C. So it was the active partition by default.
Excellent article Wishmaster.
This should be sticky'ed here and on several other forums.
This is good information that everyone should know about.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by G1LLY �� Quote: Originally Posted by whs Macrium Reflect has a Linux based rescue CD, which comes as an ISO file.
This can be put on a USB memory stick when you use a bootable app on the root of the USB memory stick.
It's quick and easy to do, you can add many helpful apps to the bootable memory stick.
The Seven forums tuts are good.
MS-DOS Bootable Flash Drive - Create
Install Windows 7 from USB Pen Drive Using Grub4Dos
Using the same source and Grub method mentioned above, the Corsair site has a nice version:
How to Create the Ultimate Bootable USB Flash Drive.
Info on editing the menu: The Ultimate USB Flash Drive � Advanced Features
After the bootable USB memory stick is prepared just add the program ISO file and do a quick edit of the menu, you'll have a menu list to choose from when you boot from it.
You can add ISO files, edit the menu so they are listed.
Add any files/folders and still use you USB memory stick as you would normally.
I used this last method and added Macrium Reflect's rescue CD ISO (Rescue ISO - Disc Image File) file and it runs perfectly.
This should be sticky'ed here and on several other forums.
This is good information that everyone should know about.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by G1LLY Excellent Post
I had a look at Macruim the other day but there doesn't seem to be a bootable USB option, unless I'm not looking hard enough (only saw CD/DVD creation available) which is my main reason for using PDB, I can do a backup & restore all from the bootable USB.
Use it with my Netbook as well.
I had a look at Macruim the other day but there doesn't seem to be a bootable USB option, unless I'm not looking hard enough (only saw CD/DVD creation available) which is my main reason for using PDB, I can do a backup & restore all from the bootable USB.
Use it with my Netbook as well.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by whs With free Macrium you can image to a USB stick, but the recovery CD must be a CD. There is no stick option.
This can be put on a USB memory stick when you use a bootable app on the root of the USB memory stick.
It's quick and easy to do, you can add many helpful apps to the bootable memory stick.
The Seven forums tuts are good.
MS-DOS Bootable Flash Drive - Create
Install Windows 7 from USB Pen Drive Using Grub4Dos
Using the same source and Grub method mentioned above, the Corsair site has a nice version:
How to Create the Ultimate Bootable USB Flash Drive.
Info on editing the menu: The Ultimate USB Flash Drive � Advanced Features
Quote:
Select the utility you wish to use and it will be loaded. The versatility of this tool is apparent once you begin to use it. The two default utilities, Memtest86+ and FreeDOS, are invaluable during system builds and trouble shooting.
Your flash drive can become a virtual toolbox of utilities that you can carry in your pocket as opposed to carrying archaic floppy disks or bulky CDs and DVDs. You also have the option of far greater storage capacity when using a USB flash drive. Your USB flash drive will still be fully functional as a removable storage drive. This is a great tool for testing memory or running programs from a DOS prompt such as firmware or BIOS updaters. The only real limits are the drive size and your creativity.
Your flash drive can become a virtual toolbox of utilities that you can carry in your pocket as opposed to carrying archaic floppy disks or bulky CDs and DVDs. You also have the option of far greater storage capacity when using a USB flash drive. Your USB flash drive will still be fully functional as a removable storage drive. This is a great tool for testing memory or running programs from a DOS prompt such as firmware or BIOS updaters. The only real limits are the drive size and your creativity.
You can add ISO files, edit the menu so they are listed.
Add any files/folders and still use you USB memory stick as you would normally.
I used this last method and added Macrium Reflect's rescue CD ISO (Rescue ISO - Disc Image File) file and it runs perfectly.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by whs Maxxwire, I think Wishmaster clarified the "Active" question.
~Maxx~
Wishmaster- Earlier this evening I put the advise you gave about restoring the Macrium Reflect C Drive Image in Win 7 as a Primary Partition and not only did it worked like Gang Busters, but the complete Image Restore took only 4 minutes and 36 seconds for the 22.6 GB partition!
The only remaining question I have is about whether to replace the MBR during the Image Restoration like the program recommends?
~Maxx~
The only remaining question I have is about whether to replace the MBR during the Image Restoration like the program recommends?
~Maxx~
As mentioned in original post:
Free Acronis True Image for users of these hard drives
Acronis True Image WD Edition
WD Support
Seagate DiscWizard
DiscWizard | Seagate
Maxtor MaxBlast
MaxBlast 5 | Seagate
A Guy
Free Acronis True Image for users of these hard drives
Acronis True Image WD Edition
WD Support
Seagate DiscWizard
DiscWizard | Seagate
Maxtor MaxBlast
MaxBlast 5 | Seagate
A Guy
Quote:
The only remaining question I have is about whether to replace the MBR during the Image Restoration like the program recommends?
Thanks WHS! That was the last piece of information I needed to confidently do a Reflect Image Restoration! Its been a long haul in that my Win 7 x64 desktop refuses to recognize either the Reflect Rescue CD or the Windows 7 Rescue CD, but I got that solved and I thanks to the help I got here on the SevenForums I was able to complete the Image Restoration.
~Maxx~
~Maxx~
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