Hello guys,
I've been banging my head with this one for days now
Here are the simptoms:
1. Copying/Reading/Writing large files (Installing/Uninstalling large applications, etc.) makes the system almost freeze - doing anything else on it at the meantime is really hard! I can hardly switch between opened windows (for example Mozilla windows) and starting a new program or even a new Mozilla window is impossible until the HDD transfer finishes! Even website scripts stop responding! On the other hand transfer speeds are normal.
2. This one is hard to explain - programs that are started but haven't been used for a while (Minimized Mozilla or IE windows, Skype, etc.) take time to open while the HDD activity at this time appears hard! For example I maximize a Mozilla windows that hasn't been in use for some time - the window maximizes right away but it remains blank for up to maybe 1 second while the HDD is reading something (based on the LED). Maximizing skype (especially one with more contacts) also takes up to one seconds to fully display the content. Once the program or windows has once recently been used it works as it should - minimizing and maximizing it works right away with no delay... I assume cache memory is used??
I have a Hitachi 7K500 7200rpm drive, 4GB DDR3 RAM and i5 520M CPU.
Here's what I've done so far:
1. Cloned my entire system to another HDD (5400RPM) - problem persists. Both HDDs have no SMART warnings and show typical benchmark results and speeds.
2. Funnily when I clean-installed the system (used Vaio restoration DVDs) I was not able to experience the problems... until I updated Windows (54 Updates) and drivers and installed all programs I need and use. As you can see I am not able to install each program and update one by one and check as they are a lot...
I have the latest SATA Controller drivers (Intel Rapid Storage Technology 10.0.0.1046)
Any suggestions where the problem might be !??? It is driving me crazy!!
I've been banging my head with this one for days now
Here are the simptoms:
1. Copying/Reading/Writing large files (Installing/Uninstalling large applications, etc.) makes the system almost freeze - doing anything else on it at the meantime is really hard! I can hardly switch between opened windows (for example Mozilla windows) and starting a new program or even a new Mozilla window is impossible until the HDD transfer finishes! Even website scripts stop responding! On the other hand transfer speeds are normal.
2. This one is hard to explain - programs that are started but haven't been used for a while (Minimized Mozilla or IE windows, Skype, etc.) take time to open while the HDD activity at this time appears hard! For example I maximize a Mozilla windows that hasn't been in use for some time - the window maximizes right away but it remains blank for up to maybe 1 second while the HDD is reading something (based on the LED). Maximizing skype (especially one with more contacts) also takes up to one seconds to fully display the content. Once the program or windows has once recently been used it works as it should - minimizing and maximizing it works right away with no delay... I assume cache memory is used??
I have a Hitachi 7K500 7200rpm drive, 4GB DDR3 RAM and i5 520M CPU.
Here's what I've done so far:
1. Cloned my entire system to another HDD (5400RPM) - problem persists. Both HDDs have no SMART warnings and show typical benchmark results and speeds.
2. Funnily when I clean-installed the system (used Vaio restoration DVDs) I was not able to experience the problems... until I updated Windows (54 Updates) and drivers and installed all programs I need and use. As you can see I am not able to install each program and update one by one and check as they are a lot...
I have the latest SATA Controller drivers (Intel Rapid Storage Technology 10.0.0.1046)
Any suggestions where the problem might be !??? It is driving me crazy!!
Sounds like a memory availability issue. How many programs are starting up in msconfig? Have you checked the memory utilization graphs in task manager when these symptoms occur?
If you mean StartUp in MsConfig - checked are 12 and I have unchecked another 7-8 that I don't need starting.
When those issues occur, the RAM is still at about 50% utilization... or do you mean something else?
If it helps - the lag/freeze occurs a few seconds after the copying process is started - for example I start copying 10GB from D: to E:, first say 5-10 seconds everything works fluently, after that freezes/lags start to occur with variable strength...
When those issues occur, the RAM is still at about 50% utilization... or do you mean something else?
If it helps - the lag/freeze occurs a few seconds after the copying process is started - for example I start copying 10GB from D: to E:, first say 5-10 seconds everything works fluently, after that freezes/lags start to occur with variable strength...
Try the following (long shot but you never know).
Temporarily uncheck all 12 startups in msconfig and your antivirus. Then try copying a large file.
Temporarily uncheck all 12 startups in msconfig and your antivirus. Then try copying a large file.
Have you ran chkdsk /f?
How old is the HDD? Could be a faulty memory too.. Diagnose your memory with Memtest86.
How old is the HDD? Could be a faulty memory too.. Diagnose your memory with Memtest86.
I don't use any Antivirus software.
The HDD is nearly 6 months old, but the problem isn't new - I have been noticing it for at least 5-6 months now, just decided I should do something about it now...
As I said it is not the HDD though - read my first post - I cloned the entire system to another HDD and there was no difference.
Have checked the RAM - no errors. Same for CPU.
Will try Snakeyeskm's idea a bit later.
Any other suggestions?
I guess it is still normal for the system to react a bit slower when the HDD is busy!? Just shouldn't be that extreme IMO... am I right?
The HDD is nearly 6 months old, but the problem isn't new - I have been noticing it for at least 5-6 months now, just decided I should do something about it now...
As I said it is not the HDD though - read my first post - I cloned the entire system to another HDD and there was no difference.
Have checked the RAM - no errors. Same for CPU.
Will try Snakeyeskm's idea a bit later.
Any other suggestions?
I guess it is still normal for the system to react a bit slower when the HDD is busy!? Just shouldn't be that extreme IMO... am I right?
What about CPU usage? Does it reman normal or go extreme when the lag or blank window (in case of firefox) appears?
It remains absolutely normal - 5-10%
Here a screenshot I just took - this is my mozilla windows while copying a large folder and switching between opened windows. Mozilla seems to be affected the most - I managed to start Opera and partially to work with IE...
Here a screenshot I just took - this is my mozilla windows while copying a large folder and switching between opened windows. Mozilla seems to be affected the most - I managed to start Opera and partially to work with IE...
Please try clean boot.
How to troubleshoot a problem by performing a clean boot in Windows Vista or in Windows 7
You said, you use no antivirus, eh? Have you tried running some scans as some threats tend to slow down your system. If not, then before you do clean boot, download MBAM, update and do full scan. Also, i'd like to see a snip of your all running processes.
How to troubleshoot a problem by performing a clean boot in Windows Vista or in Windows 7
You said, you use no antivirus, eh? Have you tried running some scans as some threats tend to slow down your system. If not, then before you do clean boot, download MBAM, update and do full scan. Also, i'd like to see a snip of your all running processes.
OK, another experiment just performed:
I closed Mozilla Firefox and opened a few tabs and windows of Opera, as well as IE.
Started copying process (12 GB from D: to E
* Opera works just fine (I am writing this while the transfer is still active - no delay at all!).
* IE has some delay - I managed to reply a mail with it , but after I just opened another tab there it went to (not responding) on top and blank just like Mozilla.
*Tried to maximize Skype - no-go! The frame showed after maybe 20 seconds but remains empty and unusable.
Once the transfer finished (right now) - everything cured - IE opened the address in the new tab and Skype showed up.
Is this normal?
I closed Mozilla Firefox and opened a few tabs and windows of Opera, as well as IE.
Started copying process (12 GB from D: to E
* Opera works just fine (I am writing this while the transfer is still active - no delay at all!).
* IE has some delay - I managed to reply a mail with it , but after I just opened another tab there it went to (not responding) on top and blank just like Mozilla.
*Tried to maximize Skype - no-go! The frame showed after maybe 20 seconds but remains empty and unusable.
Once the transfer finished (right now) - everything cured - IE opened the address in the new tab and Skype showed up.
Is this normal?
�� Quote: Originally Posted by EzioAuditore 
Please try clean boot.
How to troubleshoot a problem by performing a clean boot in Windows Vista or in Windows 7
You said, you use no antivirus, eh? Have you tried running some scans as some threats tend to slow down your system. If not, then before you do clean boot, download MBAM, update and do full scan. Also, i'd like to see a snip of your all running processes.
How to troubleshoot a problem by performing a clean boot in Windows Vista or in Windows 7
You said, you use no antivirus, eh? Have you tried running some scans as some threats tend to slow down your system. If not, then before you do clean boot, download MBAM, update and do full scan. Also, i'd like to see a snip of your all running processes.
Wouldn't harm to run it though.Find attached a list of all currently running processes (~80).
P.s. I just started MBAM - while it is scanning the behavior is the same - Opera working just fine, IE and skype hanging.......
Funny story - decided to experiment with other programs:
At the moment have MBAM scanning the harddrive AND copying 12 GB from D to E at the same time!
* Opera - works perfect
* IE - hangs
* Skype - hangs
* Firefox - don't even want to start it - it will hang for sure
* MS Office works fine with small or no delay (opened a few .doc)
* Acrobat Reader working fine (opened a few .pdf)
* Browsing pictures also works fine with very small delay
Do you think this is a normal behavior by heavy HDD load?
I'm a bit confused now what I should take for normal...
At the moment have MBAM scanning the harddrive AND copying 12 GB from D to E at the same time!
* Opera - works perfect
* IE - hangs
* Skype - hangs
* Firefox - don't even want to start it - it will hang for sure
* MS Office works fine with small or no delay (opened a few .doc)
* Acrobat Reader working fine (opened a few .pdf)
* Browsing pictures also works fine with very small delay
Do you think this is a normal behavior by heavy HDD load?
I'm a bit confused now what I should take for normal...
Do all the stuffs you want you mentioned above without starting any data transfer and see if all works perfect or not.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by EzioAuditore Do all the stuffs you want you mentioned above without starting any data transfer and see if all works perfect or not.
MBAM found no infected objects.
Do a boot time defrag with Puran Defrag utility on system drive and normal defrag on other drives. Go to it's options or something similar tab and select 'Boost overall system performance'.
Have you ran chkdsk?
Have you ran chkdsk?
�� Quote: Originally Posted by EzioAuditore Do a boot time defrag with Puran Defrag utility on system drive and normal defrag on other drives. Go to it's options or something similar tab and select 'Boost overall system performance'.
Have you ran chkdsk?
Have you ran chkdsk?
I did check the HDD with chkdsk as well as with other tools (Vaio Hardware Diagnostic utility, etc.) - no issues found. SMART is also OK for all parameters. HD Tune determines a typical speed for the drive - Max 104 MB/sec, average ~80 MB/sec.
Hmmm... Interesting.. So, it seems, there's no software related problem. It's the hardware i.e. your HDD. You should contact your vendor and get it replaced if it's under warranty. Alternatively, if you don't mind another OS re-install, you should try it but follow the steps in the tutorial below. Have your all data backed up as it'll wipe the whole drive.
SSD / HDD : Optimize for Windows Reinstallation
SSD / HDD : Optimize for Windows Reinstallation
�� Quote: Originally Posted by EzioAuditore Hmmm... Interesting.. So, it seems, there's no software related problem. It's the hardware i.e. your HDD. You should contact your vendor and get it replaced if it's under warranty. Alternatively, if you don't mind another OS re-install, you should try it but follow the steps in the tutorial below. Have your all data backed up as it'll wipe the whole drive.
SSD / HDD : Optimize for Windows Reinstallation
SSD / HDD : Optimize for Windows Reinstallation
It still seems to me it is a software problem as when the OS is absolutely fresh it is not noticable... and as you can see only with some software for some reason. I suspect drivers or software conflict... really strange.
Well, if it runs fine after fresh install and happens only after some software installations then in that case, clean boot may help in finding the culprit. Have u tried clean boot?
I've been fretting over slow disk access myself of late - which in turn led me to check the usual suspects... so if I may, here are my suggestions:
1. Is the BIOS set to SATA or IDE emulation? I know you mentioned you have SATA drivers, but still. (Note: if you change it in the BIOS without adjusting the registry as needed, you will not be able to boot up)
2. Since you have the Intel RST stuff installed, have you enabled the write caches through RST / device manager on the drives?
3. Does RST report NCQ enabled, etc?
4. Did you change the performance role - ie, background vs. foreground apps?
5. Drive alignment - since you mentioned you have cloned the drives, just wondering if the drive offset did not get done
1. Is the BIOS set to SATA or IDE emulation? I know you mentioned you have SATA drivers, but still. (Note: if you change it in the BIOS without adjusting the registry as needed, you will not be able to boot up)
2. Since you have the Intel RST stuff installed, have you enabled the write caches through RST / device manager on the drives?
3. Does RST report NCQ enabled, etc?
4. Did you change the performance role - ie, background vs. foreground apps?
5. Drive alignment - since you mentioned you have cloned the drives, just wondering if the drive offset did not get done
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Packet I've been fretting over slow disk access myself of late - which in turn led me to check the usual suspects... so if I may, here are my suggestions:
1. Is the BIOS set to SATA or IDE emulation? I know you mentioned you have SATA drivers, but still. (Note: if you change it in the BIOS without adjusting the registry as needed, you will not be able to boot up)
2. Since you have the Intel RST stuff installed, have you enabled the write caches through RST / device manager on the drives?
3. Does RST report NCQ enabled, etc?
4. Did you change the performance role - ie, background vs. foreground apps?
5. Drive alignment - since you mentioned you have cloned the drives, just wondering if the drive offset did not get done
1. Is the BIOS set to SATA or IDE emulation? I know you mentioned you have SATA drivers, but still. (Note: if you change it in the BIOS without adjusting the registry as needed, you will not be able to boot up)
2. Since you have the Intel RST stuff installed, have you enabled the write caches through RST / device manager on the drives?
3. Does RST report NCQ enabled, etc?
4. Did you change the performance role - ie, background vs. foreground apps?
5. Drive alignment - since you mentioned you have cloned the drives, just wondering if the drive offset did not get done
I'll try answering your questions but I'm afraid I'll need some help from you
1. I don't have access to this part of the BIOS. It is very limited as on most notebooks
2. I haven't done anything manually, apart from updating the RST drivers...
3. Yes, attached is the complete info from RST.
4. What do you mean?
5. Don't understand this one either...
Can you download Alex Intelligent Software - Downloads: AS SSD Benchmark and post a screenshot it? Lets see if the partition is aligned, which if it isnt, paired withh a 5400rpm disk is a really bad performance combo.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by OldMX Can you download Alex Intelligent Software - Downloads: AS SSD Benchmark and post a screenshot it? Lets see if the partition is aligned, which if it isnt, paired withh a 5400rpm disk is a really bad performance combo.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Gracy123 Hi
I'll try answering your questions but I'm afraid I'll need some help from you
1. I don't have access to this part of the BIOS. It is very limited as on most notebooks
I'll try answering your questions but I'm afraid I'll need some help from you
1. I don't have access to this part of the BIOS. It is very limited as on most notebooks
Quote:
2. I haven't done anything manually, apart from updating the RST drivers...
expand 'disk drives' and double click on the drive and click on 'policies' see if the caches are enabled.
Quote:
3. Yes, attached is the complete info from RST.
Quote:
4. What do you mean?
over there, click 'settings' under the 'performance' tab and then choose the 'advanced' tab.
is it set to 'programs' for 'processor scheduling' and 'memory usage' ?
Quote:
5. Don't understand this one either...
OK. i think i know the issue.
using the vaio discs you were fine, until you applied some windows updates.
i am thinking if you download the drivers off the sony vaio site, you should be good.
that is my current guess.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by OldMX Can you download Alex Intelligent Software - Downloads: AS SSD Benchmark and post a screenshot it? Lets see if the partition is aligned, which if it isnt, paired withh a 5400rpm disk is a really bad performance combo.
Sorry Gracy, had to re-read the full thread to get things clearer, can you post a screenshot of the installed updates? Seems like the videocard driver is having a nice memory leak or something. If possible download process explorer and take a screenshot of that too, lets see whats going on.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Packet start -> run -> devmgmt.msc
expand 'disk drives' and double click on the drive and click on 'policies' see if the caches are enabled.
Quote:
control panel - system - advanced system settings (i think that's the name)
over there, click 'settings' under the 'performance' tab and then choose the 'advanced' tab.
is it set to 'programs' for 'processor scheduling' and 'memory usage' ?
over there, click 'settings' under the 'performance' tab and then choose the 'advanced' tab.
is it set to 'programs' for 'processor scheduling' and 'memory usage' ?
Quote:
for that one, you can run the app OldMX mentioned
Quote:
OK. i think i know the issue.
using the vaio discs you were fine, until you applied some windows updates.
i am thinking if you download the drivers off the sony vaio site, you should be good.
that is my current guess.
using the vaio discs you were fine, until you applied some windows updates.
i am thinking if you download the drivers off the sony vaio site, you should be good.
that is my current guess.
All automatic updates from windows had nothing to do with drivers.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by OldMX Sorry Gracy, had to re-read the full thread to get things clearer, can you post a screenshot of the installed updates? Seems like the videocard driver is having a nice memory leak or something. If possible download process explorer and take a screenshot of that too, lets see whats going on.
I have installed 63 automatic windows updates on top of Sony's Windows + new Intel RST driver (but as I said I did it to see if it makes a difference - it doesn't) + all programs I need such as office, acrobat, browsers, etc, etc, etc....
I'm not sure how to create a list of those 63 which I can upload here?
I have also updated some of the Sony's programs (all updates official from Sony) as well as the Video drivers (also official from Sony). To be honest I haven't tried to remove those and try with the older, but I don't think this could be the problem!? It definitely isn't a visual thing - programs stop responding as well as website scripts... and as I found out only some programs are affected ... well I assume the "heavier" ones such as Firefox, Skype and partially IE.
I actually was using even newer drivers (not from sony) for the past 2-3 months and it was the same...
Not sure if I mentioned it already - I have NVIDIA GeForce 310M.
You can always get a detailed report of the computer using the tool from this thread: http://www.sevenforums.com/crashes-d...tructions.html
Even when your computer does not Blue Screen, the logs that tool compiles are very detailed.
Even when your computer does not Blue Screen, the logs that tool compiles are very detailed.
Ok, will check it out.
Btw I just realized it is not as I thought - that particular software hangs and other not. I just made another experiment - this time I had Firefox, Opera and Safari browser opened. Surprisingly this time Mozilla was working pretty fine (small delays), whereas Opera hanged badly. Safari was also fine. Opening a .doc file didn't succeed for nearly half a minute. Adobe Acrobat also needed quite long to open.
Basically just the opposite results to what I determined with one of the last experiments and described above
It seems the HDD is overloaded and only some applications manage to get some juice out of it...
Btw I just realized it is not as I thought - that particular software hangs and other not. I just made another experiment - this time I had Firefox, Opera and Safari browser opened. Surprisingly this time Mozilla was working pretty fine (small delays), whereas Opera hanged badly. Safari was also fine. Opening a .doc file didn't succeed for nearly half a minute. Adobe Acrobat also needed quite long to open.
Basically just the opposite results to what I determined with one of the last experiments and described above
It seems the HDD is overloaded and only some applications manage to get some juice out of it...
curiouser and curiouser.
everything seems correct.
what's missing...
start -> eventvwr show anything in the 'errors' area?
everything seems correct.
what's missing...
start -> eventvwr show anything in the 'errors' area?
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Packet curiouser and curiouser.
everything seems correct.
what's missing...
start -> eventvwr show anything in the 'errors' area?
everything seems correct.
what's missing...
start -> eventvwr show anything in the 'errors' area?
WindowsUpdateCLient
SideBySide
Application Error
Dhcp-client
Application Hang
Search
Service Control Manager
�� Quote: Originally Posted by EzioAuditore Well, if it runs fine after fresh install and happens only after some software installations then in that case, clean boot may help in finding the culprit. Have u tried clean boot?
But as I really lost sense of what is considered normal, I'll ask all of you once again - what is the normal behavior of a system under heavy HDD load and multi-tasking?
Please someone try this scenario and let me know what you observe??
Here the steps to reproduce:
1. Open at least 3-4 Firefox windows, each with at least 4-5 tabs with different websites.
2. Open 1-2 IE windows with different web sites
3. Run skype and minimize it to try
4. Start to copy ~ 10GB from one partition to the other (on the internal HDD)
5. Wait 15-20 seconds
6. Start switching windows and tabs, reloading pages, open new Firefox and IE windows, start writing in a thread
7. After a minute try maximizing Skype and opening a chat with a contact
let me know what you observe??
Could the reason be lack of sufficient RAM ?!?! I have 4GB DDR3...
Update:
Speaking of RAM, I just realized something - I observed Task Manager -> Performance -> Physical Memory field:
as soon as I start copying process, all "Free memory" slowly goes to 0 (during the first about 10 seconds in which everything is still responsive...), once it is 0 the lags/freezes start! Is this normal? There is still plenty of "Available memory" according to the numbers, but no "Free"! Once the transfer finishes (or is being canceled) some Free memory very slowly returns but only a small portion (10 minutes after canceling I only have 20MB free and 2941 Available!)
i tried some of your scenarios - doing a large file copy while browsing - didnt see a slowdown as such.
that mem drop on copy is normal - i see it drop to 0.
but that's normal correct behaviour.
from this page: Behind the Windows 7 memory usage scaremongering
The important number is not "free," but "available." The "available" memory includes both memory that is free, and memory that can be trivially made available, and this figure is far more representative of the true amount of memory available to applications. The vast majority of cached memory can be freed up near-instantly, since it is used up merely by cached data from disk.
that mem drop on copy is normal - i see it drop to 0.
but that's normal correct behaviour.
from this page: Behind the Windows 7 memory usage scaremongering
The important number is not "free," but "available." The "available" memory includes both memory that is free, and memory that can be trivially made available, and this figure is far more representative of the true amount of memory available to applications. The vast majority of cached memory can be freed up near-instantly, since it is used up merely by cached data from disk.
so i thought about this some more - disk partition alignment isnt the issue.
that's done by default in 7.
if you really want to verify, type the following in a command prompt (may have to be elevated, not at a 7 machine currently):
wmic partition get BlockSize, StartingOffset, Name, Index
it should report a starting offset of 1048576
having said all this, i'm still stumped as to why your system is behaving the way it is.
i want to say 'throw more ram at it' but i dont have a convincing argument just yet.
that's done by default in 7.
if you really want to verify, type the following in a command prompt (may have to be elevated, not at a 7 machine currently):
wmic partition get BlockSize, StartingOffset, Name, Index
it should report a starting offset of 1048576
having said all this, i'm still stumped as to why your system is behaving the way it is.
i want to say 'throw more ram at it' but i dont have a convincing argument just yet.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Packet having said all this, i'm still stumped as to why your system is behaving the way it is.
i want to say 'throw more ram at it' but i dont have a convincing argument just yet.
Here a view over my system resources before starting the copying process and while copying is running... you can see the Firefox window in the background showing "Not responding" ....
I have also been looking at the "Hard Faults/sec" in Resource Monitor which I hoped would give me a hint, but they only slightly increase during copying - from 0-2 to 0-5 or 10 ....
Maybe you will notice something valuable I don't
One more thing to try Gracy, Download Process Explorer , run as administrator and leave it open on top of all windows, then start your programs and check if any process is overloading the cpu or memory usage.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by OldMX One more thing to try Gracy, Download Process Explorer , run as administrator and leave it open on top of all windows, then start your programs and check if any process is overloading the cpu or memory usage.
I guess you know how "easy" it is to overload an i5 I'm more worried about the RAM, but fortunately or unfortunately I couldn't find any indication of overload... :-/ One thing that's missing is a clean install. This is why many tech enthusiasts find a clean copy installer for their licensed version of Win7 to reinstall with Product Key on COA sticker.
Unless there are Sony utilities that you rely heavily upon, Win7 has better versions of almost all factory utilities. These as well as the sponsors bloatware clog the registry, corrupt system files even with their uninstall, and generally hamper Win7's natural state as a feather-light instantaneous OS.
MS also spent a fortune getting the drivers into the Win7 installer, so unlike XP or Vista you don't need to change out the drivers given by installer, only supply any missing after install and optional Windows Updates. Changing out drivers given by the installer is often a cause of performance probs, just like having a bunch of drivers for useless factory utilities and bloatware can conflict unnecessarily.
I wonder why you have 12 programs start with Win7. Is there some reason the bulk of these can't wait until you click on them to open? Having only AV and gadgets/stickies and maybe your messenger startup keeps a dozen programs from freeloading on your RAM/CPU and spying on you.
Looks like you got in-depth hardware analysis here. The only thing I could add is to run the HD maker's full diag/repair CD scan: Hard Drive Diagnostics Tools and Utilities (Storage) - TACKtech Corp.
Unless there are Sony utilities that you rely heavily upon, Win7 has better versions of almost all factory utilities. These as well as the sponsors bloatware clog the registry, corrupt system files even with their uninstall, and generally hamper Win7's natural state as a feather-light instantaneous OS.
MS also spent a fortune getting the drivers into the Win7 installer, so unlike XP or Vista you don't need to change out the drivers given by installer, only supply any missing after install and optional Windows Updates. Changing out drivers given by the installer is often a cause of performance probs, just like having a bunch of drivers for useless factory utilities and bloatware can conflict unnecessarily.
I wonder why you have 12 programs start with Win7. Is there some reason the bulk of these can't wait until you click on them to open? Having only AV and gadgets/stickies and maybe your messenger startup keeps a dozen programs from freeloading on your RAM/CPU and spying on you.
Looks like you got in-depth hardware analysis here. The only thing I could add is to run the HD maker's full diag/repair CD scan: Hard Drive Diagnostics Tools and Utilities (Storage) - TACKtech Corp.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker ...]
thanks for your suggestion. This option is in my case not applicable for many reasons. A few to mention:
1. No Installation DVDs (for absolutely clean install)
2. Not all hardware features work with clean installed windows (for example lid keyboard control, auto dimming, etc., etc.) and there are no extra drivers available from sony (many have tried this already)
3. No one else with my model Vaio is complaining ... so this obviously isn't the reason
About my programs - All running at startup are needed from the start. I would have excluded them otherwise
And again - I'm sure there are plenty of people with many more startup programs who don't have such issues.... unless they are still using 386 hardware About the HardDrive diagnostics - it seems to me you have missed the already 3 or 4 times now I wrote that I have cloned my entire system to a different hard drive and there is still no difference...
Perhaps I am missing something here, if so apologies.
It sounds to me as if your HD is simply being overworked.
I see you have tried cloning to another drive, but are both drives 5400 RPM?
Also, you mentioned copying from 1 partition to another when this problem seems the worst.
If the drive needs to move the heads near the end of the drive (seperate partition) then back to the front back and forth, on the same drive, this is a significant strain on the HD.
Especially a 5400RPM drive.
Of course there are other factors that may come into play as well.
Amount of cache the HD has, and level of frgamentation on each drive.
IF doing just regular task, and not copying/moving DATA around, does the system seem to operate normally?
In your 1st post you also mentioned you use no AV software at all?
You really should TBH.
I also agree lowering the start up programs to what you feel are needed would be a good idea.
For example, what I consider needed start-up items for my system are:
Anti-Virus, ATI CCC, X-Fi Software, Acronis, Gadget Sidebar.
And I let STEAM auto start as well. (but use it ALOT)
Everything else I have disabled as its not needed at start up.
Of course everyone will have slightly different needs as to what they consioder needed.
It sounds to me as if your HD is simply being overworked.
I see you have tried cloning to another drive, but are both drives 5400 RPM?
Also, you mentioned copying from 1 partition to another when this problem seems the worst.
If the drive needs to move the heads near the end of the drive (seperate partition) then back to the front back and forth, on the same drive, this is a significant strain on the HD.
Especially a 5400RPM drive.
Of course there are other factors that may come into play as well.
Amount of cache the HD has, and level of frgamentation on each drive.
IF doing just regular task, and not copying/moving DATA around, does the system seem to operate normally?
In your 1st post you also mentioned you use no AV software at all?
You really should TBH.
I also agree lowering the start up programs to what you feel are needed would be a good idea.
For example, what I consider needed start-up items for my system are:
Anti-Virus, ATI CCC, X-Fi Software, Acronis, Gadget Sidebar.
And I let STEAM auto start as well. (but use it ALOT)
Everything else I have disabled as its not needed at start up.
Of course everyone will have slightly different needs as to what they consioder needed.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Wishmaster ...
Most of the answers are already somewhere in the thread but here once again:
1. My primary HDD is a Hitachi Travelstar 7k500 7200RPM 16MB Cache, considered the fastest (or let's say one of the fastest) 7200 2,5" HDDs. I defragment all partitions usually once a week with Perfect Disk together with Boot defragmentation. The one I cloned to was 5400RPM.
2. Yes, I usually experiment with copying with one partition to the other, but I notice similar delay when installing/uninstalling bigger software, doing imaging, scanning the harddrive for malware, etc., etc. - all more intense HDD jobs
3. When not moving data around, here is what I notice but I lost sense if this is considered normal ? (for example because of information moved from RAM to the HDD, etc.) - (copy-pasted from my very first post here):
"This one is hard to explain - programs that are started but haven't been used for a while (Minimized Mozilla or IE windows, Skype, etc.) take time to open while the HDD activity at this time appears hard! For example I maximize a Mozilla windows that hasn't been in use for some time - the window maximizes right away but it remains blank for up to maybe 1 second while the HDD is reading something (based on the LED). Maximizing skype (especially one with more contacts) also takes up to one seconds to fully display the content. Once the program or windows has once recently been used it works as it should - minimizing and maximizing it works right away with no delay..."
I hate AV software as it always gets in the way. Last time I had a virus was in 2003 I think (I consider myself an experienced user
). I do use malware software now and then though.About startup software - I have it limited to the basics only, I don't know why it seems so much to you:
Fingerprint-sensor software (I use fingerprinting on every day basis for logging in, etc.)
ScreenShot software (also used daily for work)
Vaio Gate additional and very practical Shortcut bar
Vaio Smart Network - very practical for switching on/off WWAN/WLAN/Bluetooth
Firewall
Incredimail email checker
and some additional Vaio stuff that are absolutely needed, for example for Screen auto-dimming, backlid keyboard control, etc., etc.
that's it. No messengers, nothing that's not needed or/and big.
i think i got it - VIDEO (since we've eliminated other possibilities.)
What video card do you have? How much video ram?
Are you using Aero?
What video card do you have? How much video ram?
Are you using Aero?
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Packet i think i got it - VIDEO (since we've eliminated other possibilities.)
What video card do you have? How much video ram?
Are you using Aero?
What video card do you have? How much video ram?
Are you using Aero?
But it doesn't feel like video... it is not that there is a lag in displaying items... programs stop responding, which I don't think has anything to do with the video....
Oh ok - I was thinking that maybe there was a perceived lag there...possibly offloading causing issues.
humour me, you do have the latest or atleast the 197.xx series Nvidia (and not the microsoft) drivers installed, right?
humour me, you do have the latest or atleast the 197.xx series Nvidia (and not the microsoft) drivers installed, right?
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Packet humour me, you do have the latest or atleast the 197.xx series Nvidia (and not the microsoft) drivers installed, right?
I'm still thinking whether the reason could be lack of RAM (so that Windows caches more stuff to the virtual memory which are then slower read out of the HDD...) but I can't get a clear indication of that... How do I determine it
According to Task Manager only 30-50% is used (currently 38%) and according to Resource Monitor not many Hard Faults/sec occur
According to Task Manager only 30-50% is used (currently 38%) and according to Resource Monitor not many Hard Faults/sec occur
Bump!
You clearly have a memory/resource issue. Furthermore, as you have stated, a clean install does not have these issues. While they are several programs that you have said that you need on ongoing basis, try going into msconfig and unchecking all startup programs, needed or not (unless you have already tried this). Then see if this problem occurs. If it does go back into msconfig and run the diagnostic startup and see if the problem occurs.
Like most tech enthusiasts, I clean reinstall factory installs with Win7 retail installer using the Product Key on COA sticker. Sometimes a factory utility goes missing but the overall performance is much better. I have done hundreds of these and every one has been a vast improvement on the factory install.
Before you slap me down again since I'm impertinent enough to repeat a suggestion that is the first step for any tech enthusiast, may I suggest you shrink your OS partition to try a Dual Boot clean reinstall to see how it fares alongside your factory install. This will test whether the issue remains on the same hardware, what is missing and whether you can live a clean reinstall.
Partition or Volume - Shrink
Clean Install Windows 7
Before you slap me down again since I'm impertinent enough to repeat a suggestion that is the first step for any tech enthusiast, may I suggest you shrink your OS partition to try a Dual Boot clean reinstall to see how it fares alongside your factory install. This will test whether the issue remains on the same hardware, what is missing and whether you can live a clean reinstall.
Partition or Volume - Shrink
Clean Install Windows 7
�� Quote: Originally Posted by Snakeyeskm While they are several programs that you have said that you need on ongoing basis, try going into msconfig and unchecking all startup programs, needed or not (unless you have already tried this). Then see if this problem occurs. If it does go back into msconfig and run the diagnostic startup and see if the problem occurs.
�� Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker Like most tech enthusiasts, I clean reinstall factory installs with Win7 retail installer using the Product Key on COA sticker. Sometimes a factory utility goes missing but the overall performance is much better. I have done hundreds of these and every one has been a vast improvement on the factory install.
Before you slap me down again since I'm impertinent enough to repeat a suggestion that is the first step for any tech enthusiast, may I suggest you shrink your OS partition to try a Dual Boot clean reinstall to see how it fares alongside your factory install. This will test whether the issue remains on the same hardware, what is missing and whether you can live a clean reinstall.
Partition or Volume - Shrink
Clean Install Windows 7
Before you slap me down again since I'm impertinent enough to repeat a suggestion that is the first step for any tech enthusiast, may I suggest you shrink your OS partition to try a Dual Boot clean reinstall to see how it fares alongside your factory install. This will test whether the issue remains on the same hardware, what is missing and whether you can live a clean reinstall.
Partition or Volume - Shrink
Clean Install Windows 7
To be honest I wouldn't say a new installation doesn't have the problem at all - I think it is just not that obvious and hard! The more programs/services run - the worse it gets - this is my feeling about it.... So it could still be a hardware issue.
Last thing I did was scan the HDD with Hitachi Drive Fitness Test - both the short and long tests returned 0 errors. Ran all possible HDD tests from HD Tune and compared the results to those from another PC's 5400RPM's HDD - not a single one is lower - all are better as they should be, considering mine is a 7200 RPM.
At this point the thread is too long to re-read when I have a dozen open cases with some doing tricky partitioning operations, so forgive me if I repeat anything as I'm working from memory.
What I would do at this stage is study the Event Viewer>Admin View closely to google repeat errors to resolution. This is how troubleshooting is done and helps familiarize you with what's going on better. You will learn some are not worth bothering with, while others need resolution.
Another useful log to study is the Performance log on Advanced Tools menu accessed by clicking the WEI score link at Computer>Properties. Check for cued issues at top of Tools menu, Generate a System Health Report.
Type Problems in Start Search box to see if any solutions have been sent to unreported probs. Win7 is interactive in this way.
What I would do at this stage is study the Event Viewer>Admin View closely to google repeat errors to resolution. This is how troubleshooting is done and helps familiarize you with what's going on better. You will learn some are not worth bothering with, while others need resolution.
Another useful log to study is the Performance log on Advanced Tools menu accessed by clicking the WEI score link at Computer>Properties. Check for cued issues at top of Tools menu, Generate a System Health Report.
Type Problems in Start Search box to see if any solutions have been sent to unreported probs. Win7 is interactive in this way.
Unfortunately problem still there
It's getting hopeless
It's getting hopeless
Try the clean install to separate partition for comparison purposes. You can postpone activation for up to 180 days to compare: re-install windows 7
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...-120-days.html
A reinstall with Recovery Disks is not a clean reinstall so you have no baseline to compare the featherlight instantaneous performance of Win7 without the corrupting factory bloatware. This will provide it.
If you decide you want the clean install we can help you remove the factory bloatware install to recover its space and the System MBR into the new install.
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...-120-days.html
A reinstall with Recovery Disks is not a clean reinstall so you have no baseline to compare the featherlight instantaneous performance of Win7 without the corrupting factory bloatware. This will provide it.
If you decide you want the clean install we can help you remove the factory bloatware install to recover its space and the System MBR into the new install.
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